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Thread: Can it do it safely?
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10-08-2020, 11:21 AM #11
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"Can it do it safely"
Safely is a term each of us must define for ourselves.
What I call white knuckle driving someone else will be comfortable with.
Strictly speaking only for myself I want as much distance between actual weights
and Truck imposed limits as I can afford or am willing to spend.
Some folks will take exception to this and that is okay.
Bob A.Bob & Alice
2020 Ram 3500 Limited Megacab SRW Aisin
2020 Grand Design Imagine 2450RL
ProPride 3P 1400 lb. bars WDH
Micro Air easy start, Goodyear Endurance Load rated "E" Tires
Titan 50 gallon diesel replacement tank
Previous: 2019 Ram 1500 Limited
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10-08-2020, 02:12 PM #12
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The thought that you might could go over gvwr is valid based on axle ratings. The thought that you can just exceed the axle rating I would be very surprised to find to be true. You had better check every single part number in that driveline - something as simple as an axle diameter or u joint could be limiting you, and Ford has been known to change little things like that.
If the suspension can handle the weight and the truck drives fine, that trailer can likely be towed by your truck, and even be within listed numbers. Maybe try not to pack it full to the trailer’s GVWR if you can avoid it.
I don’t think these trucks are derated as badly as people think now that they have broken the 10k barrier. But your numbers are still very doable.2022 Transcend Xplor 240ML
2019 Imagine XLS 17MKE (sold 8/22)
2017 Ford F-150 XLT 5.0 Fx4
Blue Ox WDH
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10-08-2020, 02:59 PM #13
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I don’t think these trucks are derated as badly as people think now that they have broken the 10k barrier. But your numbers are still very doable.
I've been, and continue to think, axle ratings are really what matters if you're playing the numbers game. Problem is, even that's a bit up for debate, what's limiting the axle? Tires/suspension (easy fixes) or the axle/differential/frame (not easy fixes). Take engineering, add in government regulations, sprinkle some "classes" on top, and you've a number that may or may not be in any way related to the "safe" workload of your machine. I long for tractor ratings; "It'll lift 4K lbs to 10ft high from 2 ft in front of the pin", "75HP at the engine, 60 at the PTO". No "fudge", just "here's what it can do, decide for yourself if this is good for your application.
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10-08-2020, 09:38 PM #14
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You are correct, my 27RL stays under the 10K sticker of my truck. We love how the truck and 5er handle, that being said I would need a bigger truck if we ever wanted to go to a larger unit, which we won’t do.
Bob and Cheryl, Puka the doodle
2018 Ram 2500 Crew,Diesel,4x4
2016 Reflection 27RL
2012 Palomino 6.5 camper
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10-14-2020, 06:49 PM #15
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My 2020 F350 long bed 4x4 has a 12,400 GVWR, payload shows 4561 on the sticker, the rear axle is 7230 GAWR and the front is 5600 GAWR.
Cat scale no trailer but fully loaded for pulling to include full tank of fuel (48 gallons), hitch, dog and myself. Front 5160 rear 3860.
I weighed the trailer 2020 320G fully loaded to include a 800 RZR in the back and about 50 gallons of water it came out to 2320 lbs. on the hitch and 13,360 on the trailer axles.2021 F350 CC LB
DW, diesel, 4x4
2020 Momentum 320G
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10-14-2020, 09:58 PM #16
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10-15-2020, 04:05 PM #17
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Before long, we will stop having these conversations. For 2020, GM blew up conventional wisdom when it comes to GVWR. Until MY 20, all 250/2500 trucks were rated at 10,000 GVWR max. That is what defined a 250/2500. That GVWR was the max allowable to maintain the status as a Class II truck. At 10,001 GVWR, a truck moves to Class III. That is what defined a 350/3500 truck. It is the same reason Ford rates a F450 at 14,000 GVWR (the same as a DRW 350). At 14,001 GVWR a truck moves into Class IV. Every step up in class has the potential to alter licensing, registration and insurance issues.
Even axle ratings are deceptive. As stated earlier, a 2020 F250 can be equipped to be identical to a 2020 F350 but the GVWR and rear axle rating will be different. Same Dana axle, same springs, same wheels and the same tires. The lower axle rating is likely due to lower tire inflation as it rolls off the assembly line. I believe a 250 is inflated to 65 psi and a 350 is inflated to 80 psi. I know that was the case on my 2019. As a side note, although Ford upped the F250 max GVWR for 2020, the max axle rating is still 6340, no different than 2019.
The whole "is it safe" thing is very subjective. So many aspects play into towing safety; mechanical capability, maintenance, speed, and driver awareness just to name a few. For me, the one thing that I don't really put much stock in are door jamb stickers. Many things other than true capability impact what is reflected on those stickers. I am comfortable doing some research and calculations to determine true capability as opposed to capacity as stated on the stickers. Others religiously adhere to those stickers and I acknowledge that is a very valid way to approach the situation and in a vacuum, a safe way also. Staying under the capacities on your stickers does not make anyone safe. If you are 1,000 pounds under your payload capacity (so safe!) but driving 75 MPH while tired after a long day, you are not safe!
The OP's truck appears to be mechanically well suited to towing the 311BHS. It will probably be over the payload rating and might even be over on rear GAWR. Of course, if his truck happened to be an F350 (equipped identically) he would be good on both accounts. Will it tow it safely? As stated previously, that is dependent on a whole lot more ratings.2019 F250 Platinum, 6.7, LB, FX4, High Capacity Tow Package
B & W Companion
2019 303RLS
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10-15-2020, 04:22 PM #18
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I’m on the fence of trading in my new 2500 duramax & picking up a new 3500. It’s either that or I step down to the 320g which is a safer bet for capabilities of my 2500. Wife really wants 351M; but it’s to much for my current truck. So time will tell.
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10-16-2020, 06:59 PM #19
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10-16-2020, 07:20 PM #20
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Unless it's a DRW, make sure you know what you're "buying". It's a new sticker, maybe an overload spring, and "legal" (which is a very gray area, but let's just say the 3500 might be "legal" where the 2500 is not). But you're not buying safety except maybe from the law (and, again, these conversations happen regularly and in 1000's of pages, I'm not sure I've seen one "I got an overweight ticket" first hand account). Now if it's 2500 to 3500 DRW (assuming they offer that, Ford does in the 350), that's a different ballgame, more tires on the ground, more contact patch, redundancy, less weight on the tire, wider stance; there's a long list of safety and comfort you just "bought" when you buy a dually. But a 250 class SRW to 350 class SRW, it's REALLY hard to point at, literally anything other than a "sticker" that actually makes you safer on the road.
I pulled a 351M with a 2019 F250. Traded it for a F450. But, I want to be clear, it's not because the 250 couldn't handle it, it could and did it well. It's because I could spend some money and buy safety, which is what I did. But I'd bet a lot of money that a 250 with bags would pull a 351M more comfortably than a 350 without airbags would.
Honestly, this whole "class" thing shouldn't exist. Tell me what's the max the truck can do safely. Don't tell me what the limit for a particular class is and rate the truck right there (like the 250 and the 450, both are "class limited" trucks). But, of course, if they did that, the 250 would cease to exist and they sell a LOT of them, so... Here we are.
All that said, with the truck companies going over 10K on the 250 class now, I'm really not sure what the heck they're doing. I live in a place where the registration difference between a 250 and 350 is huge (1000's of dollars a year), but it's all because of the de-rate on the 250. If they're not going to do that anymore, well.. Why have both?
25G fresh water capacity?
Today, 05:22 AM in General Discussion