Can it do it safely?

[Brantel]

So I have a 2020 F-250 SD 4WD FX4 XLT CC SB with the 6.7PS, 3.55 e-locker, and the HCTP. (unrelated to this question but for more info, it has the 3" class V travel trailer hitch from factory rated at 21,200/2120)
It has the M275 rear axle and the 5 rear spring setup. It also has the factory Ford 5th wheel prep package.

The stickers:
GVWR - 10,800 (Tennessee rules)
Rear GAWR - 6,340
Front GAWR - 5,200
Factory cargo rating - 2,906
Factory calculated curb weight - 7,894

Actual curb weight with full fuel and no passengers (CAT Scale) - 7,780 total, 4,620 steer, 3,160 drive
Adjusted cargo rating based on real curb weight - 3,020

It is obvious that there is some significant derating going on here since the F-250 with the HCTP and the F-350 are basically the same truck when it comes to what matters towing a 5th wheel.

The Rear GAWR for the F-350 is 7,230 for the same axle and spring setup
The GVWR for the F-350 is 11,500 in the same configuration.

It appears that the limiter for rear GAWR the F-350 is the same as for the rear GAWR on the F-250 and that is the tire/wheel combo.
It appears that the limiter for the GVWR on the F-250 vs the F-350 is the artificial limit imposed by the 10,800 GVWR on my truck.
Using the non-derated numbers of the F-350, then my F-250's payload rating would be ~ 3,720.

Other notes:
Tennessee has a max GCWR of 26,000 the truck actual is 30,000
The max 5th wheel hitch capacity of the Ford 5th wheel prep package is 19,000

Now that you have all the numbers, can my truck safely tow a Grand Design Reflection 311BHS?
Brochure numbers:
UVW = 11,185
GWVR = 13,995
Pin weight = 2,197

[xrated]

So I have a 2020 F-250 SD 4WD FX4 XLT CC SB with the 6.7PS, 3.55 e-locker, and the HCTP. (unrelated to this question but for more info, it has the 3" class V travel trailer hitch from factory rated at 21,200/2120)
It has the M275 rear axle and the 5 rear spring setup. It also has the factory Ford 5th wheel prep package.

The stickers:
GVWR - 10,800 (Tennessee rules)
Rear GAWR - 6,340
Front GAWR - 5,200
Factory cargo rating - 2,906
Factory calculated curb weight - 7,894

Actual curb weight with full fuel and no passengers (CAT Scale) - 7,780 total, 4,620 steer, 3,160 drive
Adjusted cargo rating based on real curb weight - 3,020

It is obvious that there is some significant derating going on here since the F-250 with the HCTP and the F-350 are basically the same truck when it comes to what matters towing a 5th wheel.

The Rear GAWR for the F-350 is 7,230 for the same axle and spring setup
The GVWR for the F-350 is 11,500 in the same configuration.

It appears that the limiter for rear GAWR the F-350 is the same as for the rear GAWR on the F-250 and that is the tire/wheel combo.
It appears that the limiter for the GVWR on the F-250 vs the F-350 is the artificial limit imposed by the 10,800 GVWR on my truck.
Using the non-derated numbers of the F-350, then my F-250's payload rating would be ~ 3,720.

Other notes:
Tennessee has a max GCWR of 26,000 the truck actual is 30,000
The max 5th wheel hitch capacity of the Ford 5th wheel prep package is 19,000

Now that you have all the numbers, can my truck safely tow a Grand Design Reflection 311BHS?
Brochure numbers:
UVW = 11,185
GWVR = 13,995
Pin weight = 2,197

The only time that pin weight will be at that number is the day it left the factory and was delivered to the dealership. When they got it, they will add propane to both tanks and a battery up front so that it's ready to be sold. So the 2197 is now closer to 2325 - 2350. The GVWR of the trailer is right at 14,000 lb, so if it is loaded to that weight, be expecting close to 3000 lbs of pin weight in the back of your truck. Then start adding up the weight of the 5ver hitch, passengers, anything and everything that will go in the cab or the bed of the truck....toolbox with tools, extra fuel, firewood, etc, etc. Only you know how much "stuff" will be added to the truck besides the pin weight when the trailer is loaded. So I'll just say this, if the trailer is loaded up close to the GVWR of the trailer, you are most likely right at or over the payload number for the truck. Then, depending on the hitch you select, you could add up to another 175-180 lbs. It's pretty easy to see how that trailer loaded up and stuff in the truck that I mentioned, you could be at 3500 to 3700 lbs on a truck with a 2900 lb payload.

[D2Reid]

I am not an expert here, but a couple of numbers jump out at me. Mas weight for the RV, 14,000 lbs ( i rounded up). 5th wheel capacity for truck, 19,000 lbs. Pin weight 2200 lbs, factory cargo rate 2906.

I would feel comfortable pulling that trailer with that truck.

[Overtaxed]

I am not an expert here, but a couple of numbers jump out at me. Mas weight for the RV, 14,000 lbs ( i rounded up). 5th wheel capacity for truck, 19,000 lbs. Pin weight 2200 lbs, factory cargo rate 2906.

I would feel comfortable pulling that trailer with that truck.

So would I. You might be over/at some of the published numbers, but it's not ridiculous. I pulled a 351M with a 2019 250 and it didn't even, without airbags, touch the stops. Because, of course, my 250 (and sounds like yours) was a 350 with a different badge and sticker on it, it was mechanically identical.

I will say, while I didn't feel unsafe, I did trade that truck for a 450, and I feel qualified to say "it's better/safer". How much? IDK, in fact, I don't think anyone knows. But the additional rear wheels really do matter, the brakes are better, the turning radius is better. It's just "better" all the way around towing the 351M, towing a tiny landscape trailer, or towing my 20K dump trailer. So, if you do decide to go higher (not a 350SRW, that makes no sense at all, but a 350DRW or 450) you will "buy something" with that money besides a sticker rating, it's a better towing experience for any trailer you hook to it.

[bertschb]

Now that you have all the numbers, can my truck safely tow a Grand Design Reflection 311BHS?

You will be exceeding the payload rating of your truck. Is that a safety issue for you? If not, go for it! If it is, get a truck with a higher payload rating or an RV that weighs less.

[the.jmo]

I have said this in just about every tread on this forum.

No 3/4 ton is technically able, on paper, to tow any grand design 5th wheel. Regardless of model, or trim level.


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[xrated]

I am not an expert here, but a couple of numbers jump out at me. Mas weight for the RV, 14,000 lbs ( i rounded up). 5th wheel capacity for truck, 19,000 lbs. Pin weight 2200 lbs, factory cargo rate 2906.

I would feel comfortable pulling that trailer with that truck.

You do realize that the published pin weight is a completely empty trailer...right? And by empty, I'm talking no propane in the tanks, no battery, and average weight for that model as it comes off the assembly line. 99.9% of trucks....any brand, any model, any whatever will run out of payload capacity LONG before they run out of towing capacity. If the trailer is loaded up close to or at the GVWR of the trailer, 14,000 lbs he will be over the payload capacity of his truck with just pin weight....not to mention the additional weight of the 5ver hitch, passengers, additional item in/on the truck.

[Overtaxed]

I have said this in just about every tread on this forum.

No 3/4 ton is technically able, on paper, to tow any grand design 5th wheel. Regardless of model, or trim level.


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While I'm sure we can build some corner case, I think this statement is true the vast majority of the time. Especially if the truck is de-rated to <10K lbs, it's almost certainly a "no". The interesting discussion is "can it do is safely" which we can all argue about for hours, is it "technically able" (staying below all the weights on the stickers) is just a "no" the vast majority of the time. Does that matter? That's another conversation that can go on for 100 pages.

I do wonder if that still holds true though for the 20/21 models, I thought I heard that some of the 3/4 ton class was moving up to 11K GVWR? If so, on paper, it might be possible now.

[Brantel]

My 2020 F-250 has a factory GVWR of 10,800 which is the highest they give out on the F-250.

[Brantel]

I have said this in just about every tread on this forum.

No 3/4 ton is technically able, on paper, to tow any grand design 5th wheel. Regardless of model, or trim level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are several models in the Reflection 150 series and at least two models in the regular Reflection series that easily fit within the factory derated sticker limits of my truck.