F150 vs F350?

[JKellerJr]

GM’s owners manual goes into great detail providing tow capabilities using tow vehicles option based on SAE standard J2807, Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating.

I’m not familiar with Ford’s tow ratings but would assume, they also use J2807. If they don’t they are assuming great liability.


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All J2807 does is set a minimum standard that a truck has to pass to carry whatever rating the manufacturer wants to put on it. It doesn't identify the real capability of any truck. Its also voluntary though I believe all the major truck manufactures use it now. It really just helps give some credibility to some of the numbers but its not exactly all encompassing. Its basically just some performance metrics. Nothing about strength or durability of the frame or axles, etc. Better than nothing for comparison purposes but enough holes to drive a truck trough

Only one braking test from 20 to 0, really that's it?? How about from 60mph, or multiple stops for brake fade. etc

"The J2807 standards also have requirements for the braking performance of the truck-and-trailer combination at its maximum GCWR. Combos with a maximum tow rating of more than 3,000 pounds are required to stop completely from 20 mph in 80 feet or less. During this stop test, the trailer must remain within an 11.5-foot-wide lane throughout the entire stop. In addition to the active testing, the parking brake must be able to hold the truck and trailer firmly in place both upward and downward on a 12 percent grade when it is at the maximum GCWR"


Couple of good videos on J2807 testing

https://youtu.be/iPhMnj1F-Lc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbiB...eFastLaneTruck

[JKellerJr]

Here is the problem with the SAE J2807 uses a 15% 5th wheel pin weight to get those really high towing ratings. Most 5er are around 22 percent which for a 10,000 5er the big difference between 1500 at 15% or 2200. at 22%.


States that exceeding the GVWR is a reason to fail
Here is what it says in the J2807 and link to the infomation.

5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations

The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR.

TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/to...ds-2016-02.pdf

Interesting read. lots of info there!

[Ynot4me2]

Looks like anything is possible. Lol

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[Walaby]

All J2807 does is set a minimum standard that a truck has to pass to carry whatever rating the manufacturer wants to put on it.

Exactly. It's amazing how many people think J2807 is the shizzle and the frashizzle. All it establishes is testing standards. It's interesting and useful as long as you understand what it really means.

Mike

[huntindog]

Exactly. It's amazing how many people think J2807 is the shizzle and the frashizzle. All it establishes is testing standards. It's interesting and useful as long as you understand what it really means.

Mike

Yes but, a lot of trucks had their ratings lowered or the manufacturers waited to adopt the standard until new models were ready, because of this standard.

At least now, we can compare apples to apples in most cases. Before..... It was like the wild west

[Walaby]

As I said, it is useful as long as you understand what it is and how to use it.

As long as you focus on ratings that matter the most, payload, tire ratings, GAWR, GVWR and make informed decisions, it's not that difficult to make safe decisions.

Mike

[Chewwi]

Here is the problem with the SAE J2807 uses a 15% 5th wheel pin weight to get those really high towing ratings. Most 5er are around 22 percent which for a 10,000 5er the big difference between 1500 at 15% or 2200. at 22%.


States that exceeding the GVWR is a reason to fail
Here is what it says in the J2807 and link to the infomation.

5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations

The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR.

TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/to...ds-2016-02.pdf

Don’t see the problem. When properly applied, Section 5.4 establishes BOTH a minimum tongue weight (10% for conventional trailers and 15% for 5th wheels) AS WELL AS A MAXIMUM “able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR.”

Again looking at the GM manual (what I have access to) the heaviest trailer for all the various options for the a Silverado 3500 is 14,500 lbs. 15% of 14,500 is 2,175 lbs.

Minimum value is specified for the trailer to be ballasted to have the cg at least 10% forward of the distance between the axle centerline and the tongue. (This is for towing stability, not tow vehicle capability.)

The max tongue weight is specified as 4,000 lbs for single rear wheels and 5,500 lbs for a dually. 4,000 lbs is 27% of 14,500 lbs. 5,500 lbs is 37%. Both appear to greatly exceed the 22% value stated for most 5ers.


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[CWSWine]

Don’t see the problem. When properly applied, Section 5.4 establishes BOTH a minimum tongue weight (10% for conventional trailers and 15% for 5th wheels) AS WELL AS A MAXIMUM “able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR.”

Again looking at the GM manual (what I have access to) the heaviest trailer for all the various options for the a Silverado 3500 is 14,500 lbs. 15% of 14,500 is 2,175 lbs.

Minimum value is specified for the trailer to be ballasted to have the cg at least 10% forward of the distance between the axle centerline and the tongue. (This is for towing stability, not tow vehicle capability.)

The max tongue weight is specified as 4,000 lbs for single rear wheels and 5,500 lbs for a dually. 4,000 lbs is 27% of 14,500 lbs. 5,500 lbs is 37%. Both appear to greatly exceed the 22% value stated for most 5ers.


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Let’s take a 2020 GMC Diesel 3500 SRW Standard bed 4WD is rated pull a 21,300 with a strip down truck payload of 4185.

At 15% of a 21,300 5er it would have pin weight of 3195 which would be within GVWR.

At 20% of a 21,300 5er it would have a pin weight 4260 would be over a striped down 1-ton truck with a 4185.

At 25% of a 21,300 5er it would have a pin weight 5325 would be over a striped down 1-ton truck and into DRW.

Looking at just the towing capacity you could told the heaviest 5er that Grand Design produces with a 21,300 towing capacity with a SRW.

Here is the tables I used. https://www.gmc.com/content/dam/gmc/...ng%20Guide.pdf

[Chewwi]

Let’s take a 2020 GMC Diesel 3500 SRW Standard bed 4WD is rated pull a 21,300 with a strip down truck payload of 4185.

At 15% of a 21,300 5er it would have pin weight of 3195 which would be within GVWR.

At 20% of a 21,300 5er it would have a pin weight 4260 would be over a striped down 1-ton truck with a 4185.

At 25% of a 21,300 5er it would have a pin weight 5325 would be over a striped down 1-ton truck and into DRW.

Looking at just the towing capacity you could told the heaviest 5er that Grand Design produces with a 21,300 towing capacity with a SRW.

Here is the tables I used. https://www.gmc.com/content/dam/gmc/...ng%20Guide.pdf

You are correct one must look at more than just the tow ratings.

The tables you used clearly state to “check the carrying capacity of your specific vehicle on the label on the inside of the driver’s doorjam.” The info on the b post label provides both GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) or the RGAWR (Rear Gross
Axle Weight Rating). Not sure why this info is no longer presented in the owners manual like it is in the 2017 Silverado owners manual, other than it took over 14 pages of tables to cover all the cab styles, bed lengths, engines, axle ratios, and trailering types.


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[Chewwi]

Only one braking test from 20 to 0, really that's it?? How about from 60mph, or multiple stops for brake fade. etc

]

The tow vehicle is already subject to FMVSS 105, which is used to determine if a specific vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment meets the minimum performance requirements of the subject Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS). These include brake testing of hydraulic and electric brake system and includes testing of brakes with multiple stops involved (potential for brake fade).

The testing required by J2807 specifies testing WITHOUT using the towed vehicle brakes. Testing the tow vehicles brakes without functioning trailer brakes at 60 mph would be more a test of controlling the towing combination by gentle braking than testing the tow vehicles brake capabilities.


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