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Thread: F150 vs F350?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    The tow vehicle is already subject to FMVSS 105, which is used to determine if a specific vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment meets the minimum performance requirements of the subject Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS). These include brake testing of hydraulic and electric brake system and includes testing of brakes with multiple stops involved (potential for brake fade).

    The testing required by J2807 specifies testing WITHOUT using the towed vehicle brakes. Testing the tow vehicles brakes without functioning trailer brakes at 60 mph would be more a test of controlling the towing combination by gentle braking than testing the tow vehicles brake capabilities.


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    The testing for J2807 specifies testing for both using and not using the trailer brakes.

    Why 20 vs 60? Why is 20 a panic test but 60 would be only a "gentle" stop? I'm way more likely to be going at speeds well above 20 at almost any time. I'm way more concerned about what would happen if I lose trailer brakes and have to stop in a hurry from 60 than I am at 20. Panic stops happen at all speeds. If you test at 60 it would cover all speeds from 60 down. What does a test from 20 really prove?

    The bottom line is J2807 is good for only one thing. Making sure that the trucks meet a minimum set of criteria for a very specific set of tests and their not exactly hard tests. If the ford does braking test in 45' and Chevy does it in 79' they both get they same "pass". (not picking on GM people just an example ) It does nothing to help determine actual capabilities.

    To tie this back into the OP and his question. The F150 passed all those tests to get that rating. Does that mean its as good as a f350 at the same load?
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  2. #32
    Seasoned Camper Chewwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKellerJr View Post
    The testing for J2807 specifies testing for both using and not using the trailer brakes.
    Hmmm.

    Section 4.5 is the only section I found which actual includes brake testing. Section 4.5.1 states, “Tests are to be run without the use of trailer brakes.”


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  3. #33
    Seasoned Camper Chewwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKellerJr View Post
    Why 20 vs 60? Why is 20 a panic test but 60 would be only a "gentle" stop? I'm way more likely to be going at speeds well above 20 at almost any time. I'm way more concerned about what would happen if I lose trailer brakes and have to stop in a hurry from 60 than I am at 20. Panic stops happen at all speeds. If you test at 60 it would cover all speeds from 60 down. What does a test from 20 really prove?
    Brake testing at 20 mph, proves the tow vehicles brake’s capabilty to dissapate the motion energy in a specified distance. The motion energy at 60 mph is 9 times the energy at 20 mph. Dissapating that energy via braking is very predictable. The stopping distance at 60 mph is going to be roughly 9 times the distance at 20 mph.

    The “gentle” braking I referred to was just not locking the tow vehicles brakes. Is long as you don’t lock your tow vehicles brakes, you will still have some control. Modern disc brakes are just as effective in stopping wheel rotation at 60 mph as 20 mph, but it will still take a longer distance to actually stop. At some point, not sure it’s 20 mph, the tire/road surface will be the limiting factor, not the brakes. Once the tires break loose, regaining control is less certain.


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  4. #34
    Seasoned Camper Chewwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKellerJr View Post
    To tie this back into the OP and his question. The F150 passed all those tests to get that rating. Does that mean its as good as a f350 at the same load?
    Actually the OP was literally questioning if a F250 or F350 was needed if an F150 could tow as much. Clearly an F150 can’t tow as much as an F250 or F350.

    IMO, the OP was wanting know if an F150 that was fully rated to tow the RV in question, did he need the larger more powerful vehicles. Quite simply, the answer is no, they are NOT NEEDED. That doesn’t mean there are no advantages to upgrading.

    Nor does the plain, simple, and straight-forward answer provide as much fun and interesting discussion as thus far provided.


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    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    Lets look at 2020 F150 with 3.5 with a towing rating of 13,200
    https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/?gn...der-trucks-vhp

    First Trailer
    10% of. 13,200 would mean you need a payload of 1320 just to accomadate the tongue weight.
    15% of. 13,200 would mean you need a payload of 1980 just to accomadate the tongue weight.
    At both weights above you are over the Cllass IV hitch rating and Ford will not install a Class 5 hitch on F150.
    Check the label on your hitch to see what the raings are. Ford Derates most hitches on most F150.

    Second 5th wheel
    15% of. 13,200 would mean you need a payload of 1980 just to accomadate the pin weight.
    20% of. 13,200 would mean you need a payload of 2640 just to accomadate the pin weight.
    25% of. 13,200 would mean you need a payload of 3300 just to accomadate the pin weight.
    At 15% maybe but with Heavy Payalod at. 20% it would be hard to stay within. the ratings with passengers, hitch and etc in the truck.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    Hmmm.

    Section 4.5 is the only section I found which actual includes brake testing. Section 4.5.1 states, “Tests are to be run without the use of trailer brakes.”


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    Well it is admittedly clear as mud in that paper. I think you need to be a lawyer to understand it. At about 9min into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbiB...eFastLaneTruck it talks about the 2 tests and the pass/fail requirement's which correspond to the table in the paper. But I can't decipher the exact language in the paper either.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    Actually the OP was literally questioning if a F250 or F350 was needed if an F150 could tow as much. Clearly an F150 can’t tow as much as an F250 or F350.

    IMO, the OP was wanting know if an F150 that was fully rated to tow the RV in question, did he need the larger more powerful vehicles. Quite simply, the answer is no, they are NOT NEEDED. That doesn’t mean there are no advantages to upgrading.

    I interpreted his question as to what are those reasons or advantages. If what he is pulling fits within the 150's rating why would you want to get a 250/350. According to J2807 ratings there isn't any reason. But your right its technically not "needed" But no way I would be pulling 13K with a 150 no matter what the ratings say.

    Ratings and capability are vastly different animals. The 350/450 duallies illustrate that perfectly

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    Nor does the plain, simple, and straight-forward answer provide as much fun and interesting discussion as thus far provided.


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    Agreed
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieK82 View Post
    Why would you need an F250 or F350 if the F150 can tow just as much? I don't get it. Can someone please explain to me why and how that is possible? I truly am curious.
    Just make sure you get a half ton towable trailer or FW and that the F150 has the complete tow package. That's what we have and it tows our GD Reflection 295rl without any problems with power.

  9. #39
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    I'm curious about one thing: The OP is asking about the differences in the F150 and F350 in regards to towing capacity and why would one get an F350 when an F150 could pull the same weight ( which it obviously cannot ). Yet he lists an F350 gasser pulling an Imagine TT, which is overkill. Did I miss something?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bertschb View Post
    Towing RV's is all about the PAYLOAD ratings, not "towing". All well equipped modern trucks have enough power to pull very large and heavy loads. The problem with the F-150 and diesel F-250 is they don't have enough payload capacity to tow heavier RV's and stay within the truck's payload rating.

    The payload rating of a typical F-150 is around 1,500lbs. A diesel F-250 is around 2,500lbs. A diesel F-350 (SRW) is around 3,700lbs. Very rough numbers but you get the idea.

    The F-150 (properly equipped) is great for towing small to medium sized trailers.
    My 2020 F150 with the Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP) has a sticker payload of 2,743lbs. I've done the Cat scale thing with my 150 series Reflection 295RL and all the weights are good. I've owned 250-class trucks and don't like the harsh ride. DO NOT tow much of a trailer with a standard F150. I love the 3.5 ecoboost engine which has 470 ft-lbs of torque, though I've yet to tow up a long 6% grade.

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