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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    When the tail is long, it wags the dog...

    You will definitely get plenty of guys here that will recommend more truck... It's akin to the favorite American phrase "there's no replacement for displacement." Meaning here, just as in that phrase, it takes a lot of bolt-ons to get a similar level of performance with less. Plenty of us have been there, and we often try to save folks the learning experience. Heck, I'd wager I'm in the upper 5% of folks here with the numbers of various trailers and tow vehicles I have had as I don't just tow campers.

    Anyhow, you've gotten some great advice. Focus on making sure the E4 is really set up and transferring as it needs be - fender wheel measurements are barely able to get it in the ballpark with modern trucks. Yes, I speak from experience as I've towed with that hitch on several different trailers and 5 different tow vehicles. One thing that wasn't mentioned, scale up when packed for a trip and on the way out and then compare what you have on the way home from one when supplies are depleted, maybe tanks that were full are not empty and vice-versa, maybe you cram everything into one spot when packing in a rush but then sort it at home, etc.

    Good luck!
    Geotex1, are you recommending a bigger truck will solve this issue or just further limit the sway from wind?

    And yes, a trip to the scales next season is definitely in order. Since we are only doing weekend trips right now, I don't see much weight displacement from supplies being used up in that we are only using up food. I will say that I add a few pounds to the rear outdoor fridge to make it easier to unload when I get home, but I don't think those 10-15 pounds are doing much. Both trips I haven't refueled until I got home. Perhaps the half tank of gas is hitting me?
    Last edited by NDIrishLacrosse; 11-01-2020 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #12
    Big Traveler Calbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDIrishLacrosse View Post
    Rob,

    My question/thoughts exactly. I would hate to upgrade a truck to find a minimal improvement in what others may say "well, you can't expect to travel with 30 mph gusts and not white knuckle it." So many people seem to always point to the 3/4 or 1 ton fix... with this not being just a payload issue, I wonder if it will even be an improvement when simple physics say a TT will always get knocked around by the wind?
    Many people point to a number of things to help out such as a bigger truck, LT tires on your truck, Propride hitch. Your F150 being the aluminum body wieghs less than my Tundra did so that may cause more wind issues with the tail wagging the dog that you are getting. A heavier truck such as a 1 ton will help as it will be closer to the trailer weight so less tail wagging. I am not familiar with the Hensley Arrow or Propride hitches but even with these I think if the wind pushes your trailer to the side it will still do that with these since they control sway and a push is not sway. I think you just need to fine tune your WDH and try again and see if that helps before spending a lot of money on other things that may or may not help.

    I went with LT tires on the Tundra and didn't notice a difference in towing stability but that was after I had fine tuned my WDH to bring back all the unloaded weight back to the front axle as well as make sure the trailer was level or slightly noise down in my case rather than noise slightly up.

    Just my opinion and what has worked for me but I think fine tuning of the WDH will give you the biggest improvement.

    Rob
    Rob & Barb
    2022 Solitude 378MBS
    2022 RAM 3500 SRW HO Aisin 4x4
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

  3. #13
    Rolling Along Tigger1's Avatar
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    ^^^ This is good advice from @Calbar

    Work with the hitch first to dial it in. Of course you may have to wait for a windy day while towing to see if it works but it’s the least expensive way.

    Having owned a Forest River TT I also spend time on their forum and see the same questions about F150’s and sway. LT tires and Propride hitch are sometimes mentioned as solutions. I also think an aluminum body can be a factor playing a part with sway in some cases since it’s lighter.

    My current 22mle TT is rated just about 500# less than yours and a few feet shorter and I haven’t experienced any problems with sway. I’m using ‘P’ rated tires, rear Sumo Springs for leveling, all else is stock. I originally had an Equalizer 4-point but it got too heavy for me to lift. The Andersen WDH I’m using now is lighter and in my experience has better sway control than the E4. Just a thought. Maybe visit FR forum and do a search for Andersen WDH. It’s rated for up 14,000 gross trailer weight and up to 1,400 tongue weight.
    2010 Tundra SR5 DC 5.7L 4x4
    2020 Imagine XLS 22MLE
    Andersen WDH
    Dexter E-Z Flex Suspension Kit
    2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2104s
    2014 Jayco x17z Hybrid

  4. #14
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDIrishLacrosse View Post
    Geotex1, are you recommending a bigger truck will solve this issue or just further limit the sway from wind?

    And yes, a trip to the scales next season is definitely in order. Since we are only doing weekend trips right now, I don't see much weight displacement from supplies being used up in that we are only using up food. I will say that I add a few pounds to the rear outdoor fridge to make it easier to unload when I get home, but I don't think those 10-15 pounds are doing much. Both trips I haven't refueled until I got home. Perhaps the half tank of gas is hitting me?
    No, I'm not necessarily saying that. However, the complex physics comparing the performance of a 1-ton dually versus a 1/2-ton is quite real. Did I tow an 8800#, rather tall TT with a capable 1/2-ton and Equal-i-zer? I did, till I added a big-block Suburban to the family... Even that said, you don't have to search long for the video of a 1-ton dually being flipped with a long TT in tow in extreme cross-winds... Everyone likes to wax-prophetic about the effects generated on the nose or sidewalls completely ignoring lift and the effects windward and leeward. Those are actually why it is ill-advised to tow in strong winds whether your an RVer or a commercial truck driver...

    My recommendation was to start with what you have and dial it in before throwing parts and cash at it. The expensive hitches are true engineering marvels, but they are spendy and will eat up the little payload the truck has to spare.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  5. #15
    Site Sponsor sande005's Avatar
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    The Hensley and ProPride (Hensley is an older design of the same hitch) by virtue of their geometry, eliminate the single pivot point. The effect is that any force on the side of the trailer is distributed along the combined length of both, so the trailer cannot drag just the rear end of the truck sideways (which would force a countersteer at the front to compensate). It literally is like attaching the trailer to solid bars extending out from each side of the truck. So whether the trailer is prone to true sway, or just being pushed out of alignment by wind, it just can't wag on its own. Yet, if the truck turns, it still allows the trailer to follow the turn radius. Pretty amazing application of engineering.
    So, if a big wind gust hits from the side, it does try to move the whole setup sideways at once. How much is felt depends on the total mass, the suspensions of both components, and how stiff the sidewalls of the tires are. But almost completely eliminated is that white knuckle countersteer needed as the rear end is pulled sideways by an off angle trailer.
    A more massive truck will be harder to move, just from the mass. But it also has stiffer suspension, stiffer tires, etc. So yes, more truck can address the issue. And there is a very strong case for getting more, if one is not already sitting in the driveway...

    My journey started with an Andersen "No Sway" hitch. It most certainly did sway - an awful lot, and not just from wind. It depends on a friction cup for the ball, and good weight on the tongue. With my initial way too light weight, and the long trailer I have, it didn't cut it at all. I sold it to a fellow with a shorter trailer. Unfortunately, he also had to give up on it, too. Rather than invest in other hitches and hope I would find one that worked, I just made the leap of faith to the ProPride. Expensive, yes. But far less than a truck swap would have been....

    Many of us that have the truck we have, and the economics of changing it out just don't work. Which is why I listed the things to check in my first post. Even going all the way to the ProPride, the costs usually can be far less than swapping out trucks....
    Do the cheap (or cheaper) things first. You may find a happy setup without a big investment.
    2017 Imagine 2670MK
    2012 F-150 SCrew, Eco, 4x4 6.5 box
    Max. Tow, HD Payload, Airbags, ProPride hitch
    (Previous: Jayco 26.5RLS Fifth, Revolution Pinbox)

  6. #16
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    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...orplans/2400bh

    One thing that stands out is the roughly 8.8% brochure dry tongue weight. Looking at the side view it looks like GD has the axles on the TT more towards the center vs more towards the rear. This is how they can sell it to buyers with low payload vehicles.
    5725 lb UVW and 505 lbs for TW is not good. The TT is really not all that heavy so whats causing the sway in the wind is the axle location.

    1st order of business is as others have said, weigh the TT. You want 12% TW minimum. Then dial in your WDH and truck per Ford's recommendations.
    If that doesn't help then you may need to purchase a premium hitch like a Pro Pride or Hensley Arrow.
    I can 100% vouch for the HA. I towed a very similar setup as yours and went from an E4 to a used HA. Night and day difference.

    As far as sway with bigger trucks goes, I did jump to a 3/4 ton CTD and while the TT still waggled around the truck was planted rock solid. I ditched the HA and went with just a simple EAZ-Lift WDH.

    Next move was to a 5er. The previous F150/TT/HA combo towed every bit as nice as the Ram 2500 and 5er combo.

    My current setup is a 19 Ram 3500 CTD and a 31' 9500 lb TT. In winds up to 20 mph I still have 2 hands on the wheel as the TT will sway enough to get the wifes attention. The trucks planted but 9500 lbs @31' is a load and I can definitely feel it tugging on the truck. Passing or being passed by semi's will also move the truck and TT a bit.
    Out on the flat sections of the interstate with no wind I'll run 68-70 mph without issue. My TT has a 1350 lb TW so thats covered but like your TT the axles are a bit too far forward.
    I use a Blue Ox with 2,000 lb bars FWIW.
    Last edited by goducks14; 11-02-2020 at 08:48 AM.

  7. #17
    Setting Up Camp
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    No, I'm not necessarily saying that. However, the complex physics comparing the performance of a 1-ton dually versus a 1/2-ton is quite real. Did I tow an 8800#, rather tall TT with a capable 1/2-ton and Equal-i-zer? I did, till I added a big-block Suburban to the family... Even that said, you don't have to search long for the video of a 1-ton dually being flipped with a long TT in tow in extreme cross-winds... Everyone likes to wax-prophetic about the effects generated on the nose or sidewalls completely ignoring lift and the effects windward and leeward. Those are actually why it is ill-advised to tow in strong winds whether your an RVer or a commercial truck driver...

    My recommendation was to start with what you have and dial it in before throwing parts and cash at it. The expensive hitches are true engineering marvels, but they are spendy and will eat up the little payload the truck has to spare.
    I see what you are saying. Thanks for clarifying. There in all lies the real question... when wind is just going to be a factor regardless and one will be white knuckling it/slowing down and should just expect it, regardless of the hitch or truck set up.

  8. #18
    Site Sponsor sande005's Avatar
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    Get to a scale...but don't panic (yet) over the weight. They don't count the battery or the propane in the published weights. Assuming 150 lbs, that alone puts one near 11.5%. Your current hitch parts, and moderate stuff up front, stand a great chance of putting you into the desired range.....
    2017 Imagine 2670MK
    2012 F-150 SCrew, Eco, 4x4 6.5 box
    Max. Tow, HD Payload, Airbags, ProPride hitch
    (Previous: Jayco 26.5RLS Fifth, Revolution Pinbox)

  9. #19
    Rolling Along Tigger1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sande005 View Post
    My journey started with an Andersen "No Sway" hitch. It most certainly did sway - an awful lot, and not just from wind. It depends on a friction cup for the ball, and good weight on the tongue. With my initial way too light weight, and the long trailer I have, it didn't cut it at all. I sold it to a fellow with a shorter trailer. Unfortunately, he also had to give up on it, too. Rather than invest in other hitches and hope I would find one that worked, I just made the leap of faith to the ProPride. Expensive, yes. But far less than a truck swap would have been....
    This is good to know and thanks for mentioning it.

    I can see that your TT would be light on the tongue by having two opposing slides in the rear. Add to that the 32’+ length with a 1/2 ton and sway can be a challenge. Someone we know has that trailer and pulls with a 3/4 ton. Good to hear you found a hitch that works and I agree with you about the economics vs buying another truck.

    I’ve been using the Andersen WDH for 5+ years now over three different TTs and have had very good success with sway control although none of the trailers have been over 26’. Many others are having good success as well.
    2010 Tundra SR5 DC 5.7L 4x4
    2020 Imagine XLS 22MLE
    Andersen WDH
    Dexter E-Z Flex Suspension Kit
    2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2104s
    2014 Jayco x17z Hybrid

  10. #20
    Site Sponsor BeerBrewer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sande005 View Post
    Get to a scale...but don't panic (yet) over the weight. They don't count the battery or the propane in the published weights. Assuming 150 lbs, that alone puts one near 11.5%. Your current hitch parts, and moderate stuff up front, stand a great chance of putting you into the desired range.....
    Sande005... I totally agree with your advice through out this thread.

    There are lots of good hitches out there but I am a really big fan of Jim Hensley's hitch designs. He designed both the Hensley Arrow and the ProPride hitches. I believe that the ProPride is the more modern design of the two, but both are great hitches. Having said that we use a Hensley Arrow and absolutely love it. We tow our Transcend 26RLS (32' long) with our 2018 RAM 2500 CTD and have had absolutely no issues. We purchased a refurbished Hensley Arrow hitch directly from Hensley at a reduced cost. Hensley routinely buys back their hitches, refurbishes them and then sells them a reduced cost. Hensley has some really good info on their web page about how it works, check it out (https://hensleymfg.com/trailer-sway-control/)

    I wish you the best of luck. If you need anymore info on the Hensley please don't hesitate to reach out to me.

    Bob
    Last edited by BeerBrewer; 11-02-2020 at 09:54 PM.

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