Grand Design Review

[LIBBY123]

Can't compare the two. I also sold sailboats - Irwin Yachts. Wasn't the best or most costly brand but they were solid and also hand-built each and every one. But, lives were at stake in the ocean. Never had a structural failure. Losses occurred when the vessel was in an environment which it didn't belong (operator error) like sailing through a hurricane - then they just sank in one piece. I often got calls from the Coast Guard looking for vessels that never arrived at there destination (and were never found) while transiting through a Nor'easter. They had no business being there. RVs? Well, there are roads and people who repair their own for the most part. Can't compare the two. Why bother making anything better? Vacation loss does not equal loss of life. Has any house ever been built that required minimal repairs and was sold at a fair price?

Maybe we cant compare the rv industry with other industries. My comparison is just that I've never had a boat that build quality is lower in this industry. I just find it odd, that the boats I have owned, fishing boats not yachts, never had pieces fall off, even trailers under them, Ive never heard of upgrading the suspensions, etc. Either way, I'm happy with mine, and can definitely repair most items I have. When I started researching before purchase, I quickly realized that these require some frequent repaira.

[Wicked ace]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLHux4SuXbY Here is where the industry was in 2013. I found this very interesting and maybe telling. Not suggesting that this has any relevance to Grand Design today.

That is scary, not just the fact that they are spitting it out in 6 hours but the work practices shown that are open invitation to injury. Not long ago I was watching a documentary on European "caravans". It was on TV and I wish I could find it again. It featured a young woman, a Millennial if you will on her adventures in life but if you paid attention you could see differences. One was a high end manufacturer in England of what we would call class B. The other a mid-line travel trailer built in Germany. I think it might have been Fendt, maybe a little more upscale than a GD travel trailer here. Both showed well engineered product and processes that were built with worker safety and product quality in mind. Certainly nothing like what you saw in that video.

[Wicked ace]

Hello all, thanks for the help I received from this site. There is a lot of valuable information available. Here is my final list of problems encountered in my first year or so of ownership. I have sold my Reflection for a few reasons, one of them being I am tired of the problems. Buying this RV has made me realize two things:
1- Don't buy an RV unless you really love the lifestyle because warranty work can involve numerous issues as well as being stressful, time consuming and transporting the unit to and from the dealer can be expensive. The industry is a joke, including dealers. The only things comparable are the cars and dealerships of the mid '70's.
2- Don't expect Grand Design to build a unit any different than another manufacturer. 95% of RV's are slapped together as fast as possible by employees paid piecework and it shows. You might end up with a unit built "right" but it's a roll of the dice. I'm not buying another one.
So, good bye and good luck.

Grand Design 312 BHTS Problems
Entry door hard to close and stay latched.
“Equalizer” in center of leaf springs has 2 fittings that can’t be greased.
Bathroom sink has small dent in front.
3 skirting braces not attached due to broken screws.
3 broken screws in slide out trim pieces.
Outside kitchen “door” wouldn’t lock and lock damaged drawer front.
Side lip edges of stove extending above counter top.
Finger pulls on both pocket doors fell out.
Latch on drop down bunk needed repair.
Sewer cap cracked and leaks.
Fresh water drain valve leaked.
Hot water heater exterior door not closing properly.
Shower enclosure wall at bottom not secured properly and bulging.
Shower enclosure walls not adhering to bathroom walls.
Shower enclosure doesn't fit properly causing bulging gaps to form at top.
Master bedroom door not closing properly due to opening too wide at bottom and walls out of plumb.
Master bedroom door trim and jamb cracked.
Window shades are too short and deforming the creases at top when opening.
Shower bottom "curb" framing is crooked.
Ceiling trim in bunkroom is loose.
Frame rusted at delivery, welds and surface rust.
Living room slide floor carpet (upper piece) was installed crooked,
1 ½ inches difference front to back.
Awning material retracts off center "bending" moving part of frame to rear.
Exterior of roof covering is molding at underlayment joints.
Light above docking station not working.
Living room slide noisy due to not being lubricated.
Shower door track at bottom corner not caulked properly causing leak.
Propane leak at regulator causing loss of all gas.
Recliners (2 connected) move and contact wall in rear, secured to floor with one screw.
Refrigerator leaking water out of bottom vent.
Plywood at back of refrigerator vibrating intermittently.
Water leaking between gutter and roof in a couple of areas.
Water heater flame goes out intermittently.
Two decals had the top clear layer delaminate.
No power to Head Unit, wire at factory crimp connection came out.

Sorry to hear that the TT won. I thought you had the determination to stick it out. But if you are looking to get out it's probably a good time to sell. I'm having my own travails which is having me think things out a bit and figure which direction I want to go. Good luck and be safe.

[Big Blue]

Expect to take a little heat for this, But nothing on the list is really that scary...I read it several times..... most are easy fixes.... Admittedly shouldn't have happened ...BUT..... Fix it or sell it and move on..... Good luck with what ever you decide..... Norm

[Brewhedd]

Expect to take a little heat for this, But nothing on the list is really that scary...I read it several times..... most are easy fixes.... Admittedly shouldn't have happened ...BUT..... Fix it or sell it and move on..... Good luck with what ever you decide..... Norm

No heat, you're entitled to your opinion. Problems have been fixed and it is sold, just didn't want to see what else happened in a year or two. I just didn't trust that everything else just happened to be done right.

[yobigal]

We had a lot of issues with our Solitude in the first 2 years of ownership to the point I think the whole inside has been redone.
This was our first RV and even thou going in we knew we would have issues we never thought it would be at the level it was.
Each time things happened we were going to give it up and sell but then after being at the campground we end of having a good time despite the issues.
We hung in there and things finally settled down. We are so glad we did because we enjoy camping more then we ever thought we would.

[geotex1]

Your list of issues is not a Grand Design issue, but an industry-wide issue of the mass-produced. You can go to any of the mass-produced camper manufacturers and find the same problems. If I listed what we have experienced in 1 year of ownership, some of problems could truly rank as scary because two of them could have resulted in horrific endings if the circumstances were different. Yes, also more issues than the culmination of our last 3 factory new rigs. If I were unable to work anywhere and with flexible schedule, I'd probably share your level of aggravation as I would not have had opportunity to get things straightened out. I don't quite because across the decades I've seen many things degrade in the manufacturing industries of the USA for various competing interests, certainly NOT with concerns of fine engineering and craftsmanship involved, regardless of the industry - even the automotive industry where useful design life has been halved. Where we are frustrated is in the time lost enjoying it because tallied up we lost 8 weeks on the road, added 3379 miles not related to enjoyment, and I won't list the dollars out of pocket because I made the conscious choice to resolve the suspension myself with my own two hands and selection of components as I'd be uncomfortable with anything less. What I did learn while in Indiana so much this year is that the industry is suffering because it's become one where it's assembly of parts sourced from others. Those others, like Lippert, after gobbling every frame manufacturer, has resulted in stepping back in time more than a decade losing so many advances in trade for meeting minimal performance to maximize margin. Furrion is in the same boat. Too diverse in SKUs and incapable of mastering any one, and with more than half made for them by suppliers. Plus the discontinuation and replacement of parts with inferior is frustrating!! Carefree discontinued the Longitude, and replacement arms are the Compass line. The arms are GARBAGE! They are not direct fit, much thinner gauge, and a design any engineer would look at and ask if you're kidding! Our rear awning was opened and closed 3x since arms replaced with Compass and the motor failed last night...

When we're ready for our next camper, it will not be mass-production built.

Good luck, stay healthy in theses unprecedented times, and it sounds like you've made the best decision for you.

[Big Blue]

Thinking back to my 1st trip to the service dept. for warranty claims on an 1986 Winnebago... They never fixed anything, just put a band-aide on it... The madder I got the less they cared... I'm sure they had a few laughs and a beer talking about how mad I got.... I eventually figured.... out if someone was going to get ulcers it wasn't going to be them! Dealing with a to warm Dometic Fridge in my 230RL. confirmed to me not much has changed in over 30 years...... Ended up fixing it myself with help from this Forum..... The point is... learn how fix as much stuff as you can and you'll be a happier camper....

[dryfly]

Expect to take a little heat for this, But nothing on the list is really that scary...I read it several times..... most are easy fixes.... Admittedly shouldn't have happened ...BUT..... Fix it or sell it and move on..... Good luck with what ever you decide..... Norm

I agree with you, however, some of those fixes are a lot of work and involve an expense. Even if the fixes are during the warranty period, we read that most service departments are slow to repair, and the competency level of those who do the work are minimal. It's just not right that folks spend so much money on these trailers and get so little quality and support.

I enjoy working on my trailer, but sometimes I feel like I bought a "trailer kit", and I'm slowly putting it together. Some parts fit, and some need to be modified to fit and work.

I just read where over 400,000 RV's have been shipped in 2020. Due to manufacturing issues with the virus, can you imagine the quality the buyers will experience? Service departments will be so backed up owners will never get anything fixed. I feel sorry for first time buyers. I just don't feel they have any idea of what they are getting into.

[Brewhedd]

Your list of issues is not a Grand Design issue, but an industry-wide issue of the mass-produced.

Not sure I agree totally. Workmanship is the issue of whoever the manufacturer is, GD included.


Also, when you claim to have raised the quality bar it should mean more than "puffing".


From GD website:

"By now, we're sure you've heard the buzz. Grand Design product quality stands out head and shoulders above other brands. Our multiple Quality Circle awards punctuate that fact and there are some very calculated reasons why this is so. Following construction, every Grand Design product goes through an initial quality inspection process. This is usually the final step other manufacturers take before shipping their units. We at Grand Design RV believe that this “industry standard” process falls far short of producing what we would regard as a quality unit. So, at this point in the manufacturing process, we send each unit to our dedicated PDI* Center where it is meticulously taken through a rigid point-by-point inspection process and final finished. Only then do we consider it “Grand Design great”. In terms of time, building space and manpower, this step is a costly one. But we believe it to be an absolutely essential step in delivering the finest quality products to our dealers and customers".