Toy hauler paradox

[Hasiukdk]

So i have a 2018 F350 (payload 3352#, GVWR 11500#, 5th wheel tow rating 20800#). With big slider hitch, family, a few sodas/snack/iPads, fluids full, and pin (2018 328M) added i am at calculated (and weighed) load of 3480#. By adding my 700# motorcycle and another few hundred pounds of gear in the garage, i can lighten the pin load by a few hundred #, and still be way under the GVWR of the 5er (16000#).
Sooo...the dually crowd/weight police on all the forums would say “stay under the truck payload” and thus load up the rear of the toy hauler garage, rather than have the pin be a bit heavier? Isn’t there risk inherent (or at least some crappy handling) in loading up the garage with a bunch of weight?
Common sense would seem to dictate that it is better to have a few hundred #s over payload (less than 10%) rather than cramming a bunch of superfluous weight on the tail end of the 5er, no?
And hopefully i don’t get the standard throw-away comments of “get a bigger truck, then you don’t have to think about it” type stuff. That is neither helpful, nor practical, especially in this case. What is a safe responsible decision for this case? Take a bit more pin weight (against the “rules”), or load up the tail of the TH and stay within specs (in spite of potential handling concerns)?

[Rgkeaney]

So i have a 2018 F350 (payload 3352#, GVWR 11500#, 5th wheel tow rating 20800#). With big slider hitch, family, a few sodas/snack/iPads, fluids full, and pin (2018 328M) added i am at calculated (and weighed) load of 3480#. By adding my 700# motorcycle and another few hundred pounds of gear in the garage, i can lighten the pin load by a few hundred #, and still be way under the GVWR of the 5er (16000#).
Sooo...the dually crowd/weight police on all the forums would say “stay under the truck payload” and thus load up the rear of the toy hauler garage, rather than have the pin be a bit heavier? Isn’t there risk inherent (or at least some crappy handling) in loading up the garage with a bunch of weight?
Common sense would seem to dictate that it is better to have a few hundred #s over payload (less than 10%) rather than cramming a bunch of superfluous weight on the tail end of the 5er, no?
And hopefully i don’t get the standard throw-away comments of “get a bigger truck, then you don’t have to think about it” type stuff. That is neither helpful, nor practical, especially in this case. What is a safe responsible decision for this case? Take a bit more pin weight (against the “rules”), or load up the tail of the TH and stay within specs (in spite of potential handling concerns)?

Personally, I wouldn’t stress being over payload by a few hundred pounds. What i would do is confirm you are under both your axle limits and ensure you have high quality tires that can handle the weight. I would be curious to see how your total weights with the garage full balance out percentage wise. If you still end up with significantly more on the front end of that trailer, then I wouldnt stress it either way. But that just my humble opinion.


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[Hasiukdk]

Yeah, i have the recommended LT tires (same brand/model that truck had new), and RAWR is all good. The reality is that i will likely always have my motorcycle in the garage when i tow, but i am trying to figure out some principles here, and being newer to 5ers, i want to be as safe as possible (with my current set up).

[Bungy]

So i have a 2018 F350 (payload 3352#, GVWR 11500#, 5th wheel tow rating 20800#). With big slider hitch, family, a few sodas/snack/iPads, fluids full, and pin (2018 328M) added i am at calculated (and weighed) load of 3480#. By adding my 700# motorcycle and another few hundred pounds of gear in the garage, i can lighten the pin load by a few hundred #, and still be way under the GVWR of the 5er (16000#).
Sooo...the dually crowd/weight police on all the forums would say “stay under the truck payload” and thus load up the rear of the toy hauler garage, rather than have the pin be a bit heavier? Isn’t there risk inherent (or at least some crappy handling) in loading up the garage with a bunch of weight?
Common sense would seem to dictate that it is better to have a few hundred #s over payload (less than 10%) rather than cramming a bunch of superfluous weight on the tail end of the 5er, no?
And hopefully i don’t get the standard throw-away comments of “get a bigger truck, then you don’t have to think about it” type stuff. That is neither helpful, nor practical, especially in this case. What is a safe responsible decision for this case? Take a bit more pin weight (against the “rules”), or load up the tail of the TH and stay within specs (in spite of potential handling concerns)?

In your case I would load the garage with whatever I needed and wouldn’t worry about the pin wt. Not sure but toy hauler manufactures probably design them to haul stuff in the garage and not affect the handling. Also isn’t proper wt distribution a basic practice anytime you haul anything in any trailer?

[Hasiukdk]

Bungy: Proper weight distribution should be a basic practice, but a lack of access to scales that can measure the weight of each tire load makes it difficult. The vast majority of rv’ers don’t do it as far as i have observed. Just the CAT scale routine.

What this comes down to is should we follow the restrictions set down by the authorities, or the laws of physics as far as safety is concerned if we are forced to follow one or the other, as in my case above? In hindsight, this looks like this is not answerable on an RV forum, but there is a lot more practical knowledge here than at a dealership, insurance agency, lawyer, or cop shop.
I just get so tired of the weight shamers, but i also get ticked off by the ignorant few who are towing so far outside not just the restrictions/limits of their equipment, but completely disregarding common sense as well.

[FT4NOW]

I dont think loading up the garage is really an issue. It's a toy hauler after all. Also, it isnt necessarily a pound in the back removes a pound in the front. I think as long as your not exceeding your axle or tire ratings, you're probably ok. If you ever have a chance to get to a rally, I hear they offer the individual wheel weighing which will help determine what you are trying to figure out.

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[Hasiukdk]

I realize that it is all about moment arms, weights, and distances from fulcrums. Depending on the model of 5er, 100# in the back could lift anywhere from 10 to 30 pounds off of the pin.
Thanks for the info. As far as i know, rallies aren’t really a thing here in Canada, but that would be great to weight each tire individually at such an event.

[BobKilmer]

I doubt you will have an issue being a few hundred pounds overweight but my recommendation would be to load up the toy hauler as designed and avoid the overweight condition if possible. I am sure there is margin on the truck payload but I feel it is better to stay within the posted limits if possible versus depending on an unknown margin.

For reference, on my 381M adding 100# in the garage removes 40# from the pin. I also provided a post that lets you determine the impact of a weight change on the pin weight. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...Weight-Changes

[jjbbrewer]

I realize that it is all about moment arms, weights, and distances from fulcrums. Depending on the model of 5er, 100# in the back could lift anywhere from 10 to 30 pounds off of the pin.

Speaking of moment arms, the video below has a pretty good example of what too much rear weight can do.

Personal experience - I use my 5th wheel toy hauler to haul race bikes. I had a 16 gallon fuel can tied down in the very back of the garage. While driving through Kansas, each time a semi would go by, I'd get awful oscillation like is shown here. It was down right scary. I stopped, checked tire pressure, load security, everything. No difference.

Then we took the fuel can from the back of the hauler and put it in the bed of the truck. Complete end of problem. The fuel can probably weighed about 110 lbs. and all I did was move it.

https://youtu.be/w9Dgxe584Ss