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Thread: DEF Disaster

  1. #31
    Seasoned Camper Dive Bar Casanova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    Bad DEF is a common diagnosis especially at dealer service departments. Most times its the wrong diagnosis. It's a quick diagnosis and money maker for the service department and keeps you on the hook instead of a warranty claim. Common things to look at is a bad sensor, bad DEF pump or a clogged DEF injector. Really the only way to disprove the bad DEF is by getting a sample yourself and testing it. One should never let a mechanic sample and test
    without you witnessing the process yourself.

    Another anomaly with the Ram trucks is that these random error messages can come and go on their own. Some have reported that after a few stop/start key cycles the message disappears or that even after the 150 mile to shutdown message, the odometer counts down to zero and voila', the problem resolves itself.

    Personally, no way would I sink 3 grand into a repair without further investigation. I won't come out and say the bad DEF diagnosis is a garage perpetuated scam but...if it walks like a duck......
    Correct. A fresh tank of diesel and Peak platinum eventually cleared this issue when it happened to us.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    Bad DEF is a common diagnosis especially at dealer service departments. Most times its the wrong diagnosis. It's a quick diagnosis and money maker for the service department and keeps you on the hook instead of a warranty claim. Common things to look at is a bad sensor, bad DEF pump or a clogged DEF injector. Really the only way to disprove the bad DEF is by getting a sample yourself and testing it. One should never let a mechanic sample and test without you witnessing the process yourself.

    Another anomaly with the Ram trucks is that these random error messages can come and go on their own. Some have reported that after a few stop/start key cycles the message disappears or that even after the 150 mile to shutdown message, the odometer counts down to zero and voila', the problem resolves itself.

    Personally, no way would I sink 3 grand into a repair without further investigation. I won't come out and say the bad DEF diagnosis is a garage perpetuated scam but...if it walks like a duck......
    So, there are clearly a lot of folks more experienced and more knowledgeable about the DEF systems than I. I wonder, since DEF effectively removes all of the usual diesel exhaust odor (at least on my truck), if you had a DEF pump or injector failure, might you smell diesel exhaust where it did not smell before?

  3. #33
    Big Traveler Txfivver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nogrey View Post
    Boy, after reading this thread, I think I'll do the same. Question for you: Even though the fill port for the F350 is very convenient, I still find it a bugger to keep DEF off everything during a fill. Do you have a "method" that keeps things clean? All the DEF containers I've ever used have dribbled. TIA.
    The Motorcraft DEF jugs are 2.5 gallons and I bought a couple of Ford's screw on flexible funnel thingies to use. You basically screw onto jug then the other end pushes tight into the DEF filler neck. Lift the jug and it flows with no spillage. If it won't hold the entire jug it will stop flowing and you just lower the jug and what ever's in the hose will flow back into it and the tank. I've never had any dribble. When the gauge reads 1/2 tank mine take one jug to read full again.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fgholl View Post
    Recently, we traveled from Florida to Gatlinburg and back. We got to Valdosta, Ga on the way home. Needing fuel in our 2019 Ram 3500 diesel, we pulled into a Pilot and fueled.

    As we were leaving a message popped up on the dash telling us we had low def and would be limited to 5mph in 200 miles. So the issue began before you added DEF from the pilot?

    We returned to the pumps and attempted to add def from the pump. The message would not go off. So adding DEF would not clear the code. This would lead me to belvieve there is some type of sensor issue

    We called several emergency numbers and all said get it to a garage. We found a nearby campground and headed for the garage the next morning. They analyzed the problem and told me our def was contaminated with diesel. The solution...replace the entire def system to the tune of $3000.
    I would be very suspect of this diagnosis. I would try and clear the code and get it to a dealer


    This Pilot was the only place we purchased def and a Ram fuel filling setup makes it impossible for me to cross contaminate. But it appears the problem existed before your DEF fill at the Pilot I filed a complaint with Pilot but, of course, they said their system was infallible and I couldn’t prove that it was their fault.
    Needless to say, I’ll be buying my def in containers so that I can personally fill my def.
    So have there been any further developments or were you able to get repairs made? I would think this would all be warranty covered
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  5. #35
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    Man, sorry to hear this. I am with the others, never trust the dealer mechanic, verify everything they say.

    Thank God for my 5.9, I don't have to worry about this stuff.

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  6. #36
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    From a DEF brand standpoint, Peak or factory DEF? A lot of places here sell Peak Blue DEF. Have not seen Platinum. But am going to be more than cautious from now on as I've been buying generic brand or pump. No more.

    Are the RAMs more sensitive to cheap DEF?

  7. #37
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    Def

    Quote Originally Posted by Fgholl View Post
    Recently, we traveled from Florida to Gatlinburg and back. We got to Valdosta, Ga on the way home. Needing fuel in our 2019 Ram 3500 diesel, we pulled into a Pilot and fueled. As we were leaving a message popped up on the dash telling us we had low def and would be limited to 5mph in 200 miles. We returned to the pumps and attempted to add def from the pump. The message would not go off. We called several emergency numbers and all said get it to a garage. We found a nearby campground and headed for the garage the next morning. They analyzed the problem and told me our def was contaminated with diesel. The solution...replace the entire def system to the tune of $3000. This Pilot was the only place we purchased def and a Ram fuel filling setup makes it impossible for me to cross contaminate. I filed a complaint with Pilot but, of course, they said their system was infallible and I couldn’t prove that it was their fault.
    Needless to say, I’ll be buying my def in containers so that I can personally fill my def.
    I ALWAYS carry a six-gallon DEF container in the bed of the truck. I have two six-gallon containers, as well as two 2 1/2 gallon containers. When they get close to empty, I head to the truck stop to fill them up at the pump.Not only is is safer, it is cheaper, and, if I'm in the middle of no where, I lways have DEF. https://www.amazon.com/VP-Gallon-Pat...s%2C187&sr=8-6

  8. #38
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. H. View Post
    I ALWAYS carry a six-gallon DEF container in the bed of the truck. I have two six-gallon containers, as well as two 2 1/2 gallon containers. When they get close to empty, I head to the truck stop to fill them up at the pump.Not only is is safer, it is cheaper, and, if I'm in the middle of no where, I lways have DEF. https://www.amazon.com/VP-Gallon-Pat...s%2C187&sr=8-6
    How is it safer?
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  9. #39
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    DEF has been on my list of things to be paranoid about ever since I spent a ridiculous amount of money on a modern diesel engine. A couple friends have been pushing me to delete the DEF system so let's think about what DEF does...

    My understanding may be completely wrong, but the way I understand it is like this: The exhaust fluid is injected into the exhaust stream to reduce nitrogen/oxygen compounds. That is a good thing. Please don't misunderstand and think that I believe that emissions control is not important. But think about how this affects our daily life. The DEF is injected in the exhaust stream. That means that the entire system is located after the engine. There is no way that a DEF malfunction can damage the engine!

    So what is the problem with a DEF system malfunction? It is entirely computer related. If the computer detects a malfunction, it will operate the engine differently. (Up to and including derating power and the dreaded limp mode) Somebody please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding that none of this can physically damage the engine.

  10. #40
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    Part two of my previous post:

    So, following that thinking, all we have to do is fool the computer and we don't need the DEF system at all. That's the easy part. The hard part is the ethics of removing a system that does something good. I won't address that, but there are legal implications as well. There are stories that getting caught with a DEF delete can result in large fines. While that may or may not be true, that is a good thing. People need to "encouraged" or scared into doing the right thing. The next step if too many people get away with deleting the DEF system is that we will all be required to go through emissions testing again. (Pretty inconvenient...)

    The reason that diesels don't need to be tested is because the States believe that the onboard computer will enforce the law.

    Again, I am not promoting one course or the other but understanding the game is important.

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