Torn between the Imagine XLS 22MLE & Cougar 22MLS

[BigYin]

Hi all - I posted a bit about me in the welcome section so wont repeat. But basically getting close to ordering our first TT after many, many months of research. I love the floorplan of the almost identical trailers. The pros for each over the other (after reading many posts on here and on other websites) I can see, is as follows:

Imagine: From the quotes I have got is coming out at more the CAD$10k less expensive, it is roughly 550lbs lighter (will be pulling with a half-ton payload approx 1800lbs). Possibly slightly better insulation, but difficult to find good info on this apart from manufacturer claims. Larger grey and black tanks. The after sales service from the manufacturer seems to be some of the best around. Positive comments on build quality and lack of issues (I realize all brands will have some problems over time). Better online community.

Cougar: Can option with dual pane windows (plan to be in some colder locations from time to time). Also comes with more insulation on underbelly and heat pads for all tanks. Can option with a factory solar system (will be boondocking at times) and slide out topper. Much larger fresh water tank. 35k BTU furnace compareed to 25. 15k A/C (not sure what is in the Imagine). Comes with Dunlop E rated 15" tyres. Seamless fibreglass front cap. Curved ceiling with more height (I'm 6'3"). King size bed. Rear window. A few other features like elec stabilizers, dimmable lights and IMO nicer cabinetry. The dealer is closer to home and have been much nicer to deal with than the GD dealer (not that they have been terrible) that is over an hours drive away.

I have read a few posts on here from ex Cougar owners that have been left incredibly disappointed with the experience with them so that does a lot to put someone off! They seemingly have then moved to GD and been much happier. To be honest if I was more confident in the Cougar I would place an order tomorrow as it has some features and touches that on paper put it above the XLS and would be a nicer, more comfortable place to be for a prolonged period of time in various places (and justify the much larger price tag). The price difference of the XLS though, buys a lot of accessories and propane (although lack of no option for dual pane window sucks). I know that neither are going to survive very well in prolonged winter use but the more help the better if we do get caught in some colder (and warmer) places. And I know that, to a point it will be luck of the draw on how well either will be put together, you may be lucky or unlucky with either. I am prepared for some glue and nails etc to be needed with either at times.

I realize that posting this on a (better than Keystone) GD forum will attract some responses weighted to GD, but if anyone could give me a bit of honest feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Dave

[Calbar]

Hi all - I posted a bit about me in the welcome section so wont repeat. But basically getting close to ordering our first TT after many, many months of research. I love the floorplan of the almost identical trailers. The pros for each over the other (after reading many posts on here and on other websites) I can see, is as follows:

Imagine: From the quotes I have got is coming out at more the CAD$10k less expensive, it is roughly 550lbs lighter (will be pulling with a half-ton payload approx 1800lbs). Possibly slightly better insulation, but difficult to find good info on this apart from manufacturer claims. Larger grey and black tanks. The after sales service from the manufacturer seems to be some of the best around. Positive comments on build quality and lack of issues (I realize all brands will have some problems over time). Better online community.

Cougar: Can option with dual pane windows (plan to be in some colder locations from time to time). Also comes with more insulation on underbelly and heat pads for all tanks. Can option with a factory solar system (will be boondocking at times) and slide out topper. Much larger fresh water tank. 35k BTU furnace compareed to 25. 15k A/C (not sure what is in the Imagine). Comes with Dunlop E rated 15" tyres. Seamless fibreglass front cap. Curved ceiling with more height (I'm 6'3"). King size bed. Rear window. A few other features like elec stabilizers, dimmable lights and IMO nicer cabinetry. The dealer is closer to home and have been much nicer to deal with than the GD dealer (not that they have been terrible) that is over an hours drive away.

I have read a few posts on here from ex Cougar owners that have been left incredibly disappointed with the experience with them so that does a lot to put someone off! They seemingly have then moved to GD and been much happier. To be honest if I was more confident in the Cougar I would place an order tomorrow as it has some features and touches that on paper put it above the XLS and would be a nicer, more comfortable place to be for a prolonged period of time in various places (and justify the much larger price tag). The price difference of the XLS though, buys a lot of accessories and propane (although lack of no option for dual pane window sucks). I know that neither are going to survive very well in prolonged winter use but the more help the better if we do get caught in some colder (and warmer) places. And I know that, to a point it will be luck of the draw on how well either will be put together, you may be lucky or unlucky with either. I am prepared for some glue and nails etc to be needed with either at times.

I realize that posting this on a (better than Keystone) GD forum will attract some responses weighted to GD, but if anyone could give me a bit of honest feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Dave

I have not owned a Cougar trailer so can't compare even though we looked at them. We have always looked at floorplan, feature and build quality when we have bought. Waste tank size is very important and more important than fresh water size when boondocking. It is easier to add fresh water than to dump tanks so IMHO this is a big plus for boondocking.

I also think that with your truck you could step up to an Imagine 2610ML and maybe get more of the features for a similar price as the Cougar. Depending on the 1/2 ton you should have not issues towing that one either speaking from experience as it is nearly same weight and shorter than my previous Rockwood. Just another thought.

Rob

[huntr70]

So, if you are looking at a Cougar, why wouldn't you look at the Imagine 2610ML and compare a little closer in apples to apples?

Construction in similar, you can only insulate so much in 1 1/2" thick walls. https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...e/construction Keystone doesn't advertise their R values as far as I am aware.

Capacities are close, with Cougar only beating Imagine by 8 gallons fresh. Imagine kills Cougar with gray at 90 and black at 45.

Dual pane windows are still not available. They realize that a lightweight trailer really isn't built to be winter lived in. Keystone can kid themselves all they want. (Yes, we sell Keystone also)

A/c is standard 15k, heat is 35k, full fiberglass front cap.

The XLS isn't really in the same ball parks as either of these.

[more tired since retired]

Another thing to check is where the heating ducts are located. I looked at a Cougar before we purchased our Imagine 2600 and if I remember correctly, the heat ducts are in the floor. If they are, you will be collecting dust, dirt, pet hair, etc in those floor ducts, only to have them blowing around when the furnace is on. The GD has ducts mounted off the floor. May not really matter to you but for us, floor ducts are non-starters, no matter what the layout/price is.

[BigYin]

Thanks guys for your input, it's very helpful but still a lot to think about! Rob and Barb you are in the same neck of the woods as us (we have just moved here from Scotland)! Any dealers (RV and Truck) you recommend to go to or to stay away from?

To be honest the thing that attracted me to the the XLS was the fact that it is a little lighter and smaller. The Cougar was at the upper end of what I had in mind (also from a price point of view), but I may rethink this. We were thinking to keep things pretty lean without sacrificing too much so it is easier to maneuver, get into national parks and smaller spots etc.

We aren't wanting to live in it over the winter but from the research I have done the windows are the place that most of the heat escapes and helps a lot with condensation, so it would have been nice to have as an option for the occasional colder night - the heated tank pads we could probably live without.

I did see the differing types of heat ducts and should have put this in the pros for the imagine.

Why can't someone take all the pros of each and put it into the same trailer! It's a big decision and very expensive purchase for us so wanting to get it as right as possible. Will have to mull things over - thank you again.

[Calbar]

Thanks guys for your input, it's very helpful but still a lot to think about! Rob and Barb you are in the same neck of the woods as us (we have just moved here from Scotland)! Any dealers (RV and Truck) you recommend to go to or to stay away from?

To be honest the thing that attracted me to the the XLS was the fact that it is a little lighter and smaller. The Cougar was at the upper end of what I had in mind (also from a price point of view), but I may rethink this. We were thinking to keep things pretty lean without sacrificing too much so it is easier to maneuver, get into national parks and smaller spots etc.

We aren't wanting to live in it over the winter but from the research I have done the windows are the place that most of the heat escapes and helps a lot with condensation, so it would have been nice to have as an option for the occasional colder night - the heated tank pads we could probably live without.

I did see the differing types of heat ducts and should have put this in the pros for the imagine.

Why can't someone take all the pros of each and put it into the same trailer! It's a big decision and very expensive purchase for us so wanting to get it as right as possible. Will have to mull things over - thank you again.

BigYin,

Not sure where you are, you may want to add this to your signature, but as far as RV dealers go we found that Layzee Acres has the best prices for Grand Design units if that is what you end up with but they are the furthest away. CanAm RV in London seems to be OK. I had a recall done there on my 287RSTS that didn't go so well but they can to my house to fix it rather than have me pull it to London a 3rd time so I was happy about that. The GD dealer in Hamilton I didn't like because they were most expensive and not willing to negotiate very much. Mobilife in Kitchener sells Cougar. I buy accessories there sometime but never bought a trailer so can't provide any feedback on that. I have bought a trailer at Sauders Camping. They are pretty good to deal with but don't sell GD or Cougar.

As far as the Imagine 2610 you won't have any issues getting into national or provincial parks. I haven't had issues with my 297RSTS and it is 34' long.

Rob

[Ynot4me2]

Lots of good comments from the other members. If weight is a concern, be weary of advertise weights from any manufacturer including GD. Loaded for a trip, 1/3 fresh water and full lp our 22mle was around 6000 and tongue weight 760. Those floor plans are really similar. I personally would stay away from floor vents. I would love double panned windows but wouldn't like the extra weight. We camp in just below freezing and the furnace was OK. We wouldn't need tank heaters as the underbelly is heated via the furnace. Judging by your other post, I think your in or around Toronto. If so, we bought ours in Alexandria, just 4hrs from TO fabulous service and after sale. I heard good things also from Thousand Island just 3hrs from TO. $10K buys a lot of accessories including tires and electric stabilizers (again more weight).

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

[more tired since retired]

If you're on the East Coast, you might want to check out CampersInn RV. I've found them to have great pricing and excellent service.

[rmcrowe]

One thing you might appreciate because you are tall (I'm 6'6") is that the imagine line has taller ceilings . I know when we bought our 2500rl we were comparing a cougar and while I could get in it it was super tight. The imagine feels much better.