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  1. #31
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    Where I can, I will buy North American. To save a dollar, we have helped create a very strong adversary in China. Perhaps it might be advisable to look back in history and see how 1930’s Japan became so powerful. And that power was used against us.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    I am thinking I will just add another Li battery later if needed. I am guessing I could add any size of Li to the existing 100Ah Li? Thinking adding a 170Ah would give me more than enough power at 270Ah. Thoughts?
    I think that is totally okay. The only thing I think you want to watch for is that both lithium batteries are charged as close to the same starting voltage as possible before connecting them. They'll equalize at the same voltage but if one is discharged, the other one is going to try and charge it at whatever maximum current is allowed by the internal resistance. Could get warm.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgjog182 View Post
    Where I can, I will buy North American. To save a dollar, we have helped create a very strong adversary in China. Perhaps it might be advisable to look back in history and see how 1930’s Japan became so powerful. And that power was used against us.
    Currently ALL Lithium Iron cells/batteries (what we are talking about in this thread) are produced in China. The original American company, that directly resulted from research done at MIT, was A123. They declared bankruptcy in 2012, and their assets were purchased and manufacturing moved to China. Through a series of subsequent purchases, the tech passed to Lithium Werks, a Dutch company. But manufacturing remained in China. It appears that Lithium Werks has sold at least part of its rights to a company called Lithium Power. They claim to be building a US plant in Nevada. No ETA as to when that will be operational.
    It being China, it is unknown to me who there has passed around the manufacturing knowledge to whom. It is very easy for employees leave and start their own competing facilities there, with almost no protections for the original company. So there is a high chance of very compromised processes being used to undercut prices.

    One trusts that a "name" assembler/seller here in the states (Battle Born) has done their diligence, and is demanding strict standards in what they buy. Buying direct from an unknown party in China, you take your chances. One trusts that the base chemistry/assembly is close to original design, and therefore still has the original remarkable safety of the originals. But unless one is a qualified engineer in that area, with facilities to do complete testing, it is near impossible to know.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgjog182 View Post
    Where I can, I will buy North American. To save a dollar, we have helped create a very strong adversary in China. Perhaps it might be advisable to look back in history and see how 1930’s Japan became so powerful. And that power was used against us.
    Unfortunately, if you are buying lithium batteries, you are buying Chinese as they are the only country actively mining the lithium needed to make these. Even if you buy a Chinese brand from a USA company, you are still supporting US companies who import them, warehouse them and sell them to you.
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  5. #35
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
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    I have been happy with my Victron batteries. They are easier to troubleshoot and less wiring than BattleBorn while being price competitive. They can perform higher as well since their architecture keeps you from being limited by the BMS. You do have to design and plan your system more carefully though since they do not have the idiot proof features of the BattleBorn (part of why they can perform higher).

    I paid $7100 for my 2x 24v 200 AH batteries for 10 kWh total. That is comparable to 8x BattleBorns in capacity. I did pay $95 for the external BMS as well.

    These batteries did ship from China and are built using CALB cells. They were purchased from an American dealer who sourced them from the American division of a Netherlands based company. So it was all very culturally diverse haha
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  6. #36
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    Why does the Victron battery have less wiring? It has an integrated BMS like the Battleborn, and otherwise just two terminals. Seems like the same thing using different cells.
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  7. #37
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootusrootus View Post
    Why does the Victron battery have less wiring? It has an integrated BMS like the Battleborn, and otherwise just two terminals. Seems like the same thing using different cells.
    Because I only had to wire up 2 batteries vs 8x BattleBorns for comparable capacity. Many less terminations, wires to make, voltage loss in cables and connectors, smaller footprint. Many benefits.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
    Because I only had to wire up 2 batteries vs 8x BattleBorns for comparable capacity. Many less terminations, wires to make, voltage loss in cables and connectors, smaller footprint. Many benefits.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ah, that makes sense, BB only has one small battery that's 24V, and nothing particularly large.

    It will be interesting to see how the battery landscape evolves over the next few years. Cells are getting much less expensive. Aside from brand name, you can buy 270 Ah (12V) worth of capacity for about $550, which is a quarter of what a BB runs. But BB does have an interesting argument to make on cell choice.
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  9. #39
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    That is a most impressive set up. I am just starting my build, what gage wire was used for the batteries ? TIA

  10. #40
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornpone99 View Post
    That is a most impressive set up. I am just starting my build, what gage wire was used for the batteries ? TIA
    I used 4/0 for the batteries and dual 4/0 for the inverter (now 2 inverters). The batteries are rated at 200a continuous and 400a peak so this was really no optional from a safety standpoint.
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