Tow vehicle questions to ask / answer

[Canyonlight]

Reminds me of when we were at the Hershey show a couple years ago. The dealer representing GD was absolutely certain an F250 was adequate for a 310. Fortunately I learned a lot more from the good folks of this forum and am very happy with our setup.

Kinda like this guy with his 250. Even worse it is a 375 Solitude with a few hundred more lbs. empty pin weight than a 310......not a good match to say the least in stock configuration.


Dan

[BreakfastinAmerica]

Never trust the sales people. They don’t usually own trucks or RVs.

[Txfivver]

Kinda like this guy with his 250. Even worse it is a 375 Solitude with a few hundred more lbs. empty pin weight than a 310......not a good match to say the least in stock configuration.


Dan

Ouch that hurts to look at! I have that trailer and I can promise you he's at least 1500 pounds over the payload rating on that truck! May God be with him if he has a rear tire let go on the truck

[JeffD68]

Okay, here is the reality; there is probably a 99% chance that you could tow a 310 with your truck for years with absolutely no issues. F250/2500 pickups have towed fifth wheels bigger than the 310GK for millions of miles. You can read plenty of posts on many forums about the dangers of towing a fifth wheel with a 3/4 ton truck. What is in very short supply are actual accounts of real problems. It is unlikely that the pin weight of a 310 is going to have an adverse effect on the mechanical components of your specific truck. In other words, it isn't going to break anything. I don't have all of the specifics of your particular truck but I can assure you that there is very little that distinguishes a SRW F350 from your F250. The list: rear axle (unless you have the High Capacity Trailer Tow Package, you have the Sterling 10.5, which is a holdover from the previous generation F350), rear leaf pack. Your rear tires came from the factory inflated to 65 psi but on a F350, the same tires would be at 80 psi. That's an easy fix. You could add a leaf to increase the "capability" of your rear pack or you could install completely new, heavy duty rear leaf springs. So, increasing the actual capability of a truck is relatively easy and inexpensive but the listed (sticker) capacities will never change no matter what you do. For me, as trailers get longer and heavier, the issue isn't 250 or 350, it's SRW or DRW. Keep in mind, that if you go with the 310 you will be well over your payload (that doesn't bother me in the slightest) and likely over your RAWR as well. That does bother me somewhat, even understanding that the RAWR is assigned to your truck based on the fact that it is a F250. I know that because a 2020 F250 with the HCTTP would have the exact same axle and rear springs as a SWR F350, but the same RAWR (6340 pounds) as every other F250. All of the ratings and capacities are manipulated to a certain extent for marketing reasons but we all have to apply logic and reason to the situation draw the line somewhere. For many, that line is the capacities stated on the door jamb stickers.

I am in the same boat as you. A F350 was simply not an option for me so I special ordered the F250 HCTTP. There is no cost savings going that route but I am in compliance with certain restriction that are applicable to my situation. I am also a big fan of the 310GK but I elected to go with the Refection 303. That was the correct choice for me. I am just under my RAWR (6340), and way under the wheel (7180) and tire (8160) ratings. My truck handles the 303 perfectly and I have zero reservation about my set-up. I love both the truck and trailer. Once I retire (four more years) and I am no longer restricted to a Class 2 truck, I may choose to upgrade to a F450 (another vehicle, that for marketing reasons, has stated capacities much lower than it's true capability) and a bigger trailer. I am so happy with my current combination that I could also see myself sticking with it.

Good luck with your decision.

[CWSWine]

Okay, here is the reality; there is probably a 99% chance that you could tow a 310 with your truck for years with absolutely no issues.
Good luck with your decision.

Here is the problem with your logic.

My 310R loaded for 30 day trip my rear axles on my 1 Ton GMC weight in at 6880 of my 7150 RAWR and my payload was 3772. I still want to add an Onan generator and washer dryer which would probably put me over the axle ratings and over or very close to tire ratings. I was over 600 pounds over my GVWR but within my GVWR of my RV.

I have had conversations with 3 different accident attorneys about RVs and accidents and all three quoted 3/4 ton pulling a 5er as a red flag. In the above example, I would guess that his truck payload is around 2,000 pounds and my 310R factory sheet said 2460 pin weight. People say show me the law the covers RVer being overweight and I ask the Accident Attorney the same question and he pointed to the owners manual to this statement;

“must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR on(Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)”

The word “Must” is the keyword. In civil court, that statement is enough to convict on. I asked why don’t you see more court cases and he said simply if an attorney lets a cause go to civil court knowing his client was overweight would be a fool. You never know what a jury is going to award and you better off settling out of court and 99% of these are settled out of court.

I suggest if you towing overweight you spend some time with a ‘Accident Attorney”

Added - I thought it was interesting the accident attorney all ready had the information about RV and over weight and two of those the questions was not researched since I just ask the question while they were shopping in my store.

[JeffD68]

Here is the problem with your logic.

My 310R loaded for 30 day trip my rear axles on my 1 Ton GMC weight in at 6880 of my 7150 RAWR and my payload was 3772. I still want to add an Onan generator and washer dryer which would probably put me over the axle ratings and over or very close to tire ratings. I was over 600 pounds over my GVWR but within my GVWR of my RV.

I have had conversations with 3 different accident attorneys about RVs and accidents and all three quoted 3/4 ton pulling a 5er as a red flag. In the above example, I would guess that his truck payload is around 2,000 pounds and my 310R factory sheet said 2460 pin weight. People say show me the law the covers RVer being overweight and I ask the Accident Attorney the same question and he pointed to the owners manual to this statement;

“must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR on(Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)”

The word “Must” is the keyword. In civil court, that statement is enough to convict on. I asked why don’t you see more court cases and he said simply if an attorney lets a cause go to civil court knowing his client was overweight would be a fool. You never know what a jury is going to award and you better off settling out of court and 99% of these are settled out of court.

I suggest if you towing overweight you spend some time with a ‘Accident Attorney”

Added - I thought it was interesting the accident attorney all ready had the information about RV and over weight and two of those the questions was not researched since I just ask the question while they were shopping in my store.

You used my quote out of context. I was clearly speaking of mechanical issues, not the legality. That is a separate, yet related issue that I didn't address at all in my post.

There is absolutely no consensus on the legal issue. I have read literally hundreds of posts about the topic, and nearly all, on both sides, are based purely on conjecture. There is no doubt that the safe play is to stay under all ratings. My best guess, based on those thousands of posts, is that if you stay under your front and rear AWR and tire ratings, you will not have any legal issues. Obviously, civil court is a different animal all together.

Owner's manuals are written to protect manufacturers from liability...they don't write law.

Accidents don't just happen. There is always a cause and it usually has something to do with negligence of some sort. It is silly to think that towing "over weight" puts one at any greater risk than any number other things. If you are underweight but driving over the speed limit, good luck. What if your trailer brakes are deemed to be out of adjustment, or it is determined that you were distracted. Unless you are doing everything by the book 100% of the time, you assume some risk. If you get in an accident while towing, and are unfortunate enough to find yourself in civil court, the plaintiff's lawyer will drum up something that points the finger at you. All we can do is understand the potential risk and mitigate it as best we can. There is no avoiding it completely.

[CWSWine]

The 3/4 ton truck and 1-ton truck having the same parts is also incorrect. Have talked to several parts guys and they have told me that you can look up XYZ part for 1 ton and say zero in stock but just change the VIN number to a 3/4 ton and like magic the parts are in stock. Sometimes it just a - number that makes the difference between a 3/4 ton and 1-ton and the computer will pick the correct part buy year, model, make, and Etc. Every good parts guy has a bunch of different VIN numbers in his bottom draw.

[JeffD68]

The 3/4 ton truck and 1-ton truck having the same parts is also incorrect. Have talked to several parts guys and they have told me that you can look up XYZ part for 1 ton and say zero in stock but just change the VIN number to a 3/4 ton and like magic the parts are in stock. Sometimes it just a - number that makes the difference between a 3/4 ton and 1-ton and the computer will pick the correct part buy year, model, make, and Etc. Every good parts guy has a bunch of different VIN numbers in his bottom draw.

The OP has a 2019 F250 6.7, and I can say with certainty that there is very little that distinguishes his truck from a 2019 SRW F350. The engine, fuel system, cooling system, transmission, front suspension, shocks and frame are identical. Depending on the options selected, the rear axle may be different. The rear spring pack is definitely different. That's it. The F250/F350 distinction is mostly marketing/regulatory. That has been the case since Ford created the Super Duty line in 1999. In the Ford truck world, this is not really disputed.

[Redapple63]

Okay, here is the reality; there is probably a 99% chance that you could tow a 310 with your truck for years with absolutely no issues. F250/2500 pickups have towed fifth wheels bigger than the 310GK for millions of miles. You can read plenty of posts on many forums about the dangers of towing a fifth wheel with a 3/4 ton truck. What is in very short supply are actual accounts of real problems. It is unlikely that the pin weight of a 310 is going to have an adverse effect on the mechanical components of your specific truck. In other words, it isn't going to break anything. I don't have all of the specifics of your particular truck but I can assure you that there is very little that distinguishes a SRW F350 from your F250. The list: rear axle (unless you have the High Capacity Trailer Tow Package, you have the Sterling 10.5, which is a holdover from the previous generation F350), rear leaf pack. Your rear tires came from the factory inflated to 65 psi but on a F350, the same tires would be at 80 psi. That's an easy fix. You could add a leaf to increase the "capability" of your rear pack or you could install completely new, heavy duty rear leaf springs. So, increasing the actual capability of a truck is relatively easy and inexpensive but the listed (sticker) capacities will never change no matter what you do. For me, as trailers get longer and heavier, the issue isn't 250 or 350, it's SRW or DRW. Keep in mind, that if you go with the 310 you will be well over your payload (that doesn't bother me in the slightest) and likely over your RAWR as well. That does bother me somewhat, even understanding that the RAWR is assigned to your truck based on the fact that it is a F250. I know that because a 2020 F250 with the HCTTP would have the exact same axle and rear springs as a SWR F350, but the same RAWR (6340 pounds) as every other F250. All of the ratings and capacities are manipulated to a certain extent for marketing reasons but we all have to apply logic and reason to the situation draw the line somewhere. For many, that line is the capacities stated on the door jamb stickers.

I am in the same boat as you. A F350 was simply not an option for me so I special ordered the F250 HCTTP. There is no cost savings going that route but I am in compliance with certain restriction that are applicable to my situation. I am also a big fan of the 310GK but I elected to go with the Refection 303. That was the correct choice for me. I am just under my RAWR (6340), and way under the wheel (7180) and tire (8160) ratings. My truck handles the 303 perfectly and I have zero reservation about my set-up. I love both the truck and trailer. Once I retire (four more years) and I am no longer restricted to a Class 2 truck, I may choose to upgrade to a F450 (another vehicle, that for marketing reasons, has stated capacities much lower than it's true capability) and a bigger trailer. I am so happy with my current combination that I could also see myself sticking with it.

Good luck with your decision.

Curious,

Why do you need to retire to buy an F450?

[JeffD68]

Curious,

Why do you need to retire to buy an F450?

My employer gives me a $800 a month vehicle allowance and a fuel card. In return, I purchase, insure and maintain the truck but I must list them on my insurance as an "interested party". One of the stipulations of the policy is that Class III vehicles are prohibited. They claim that DOT requirements kick in for "1 Ton" trucks even though the truck is only registered in my name. Of course, 1 Ton has no real meaning but I know that they really mean any vehicle over 10,000 GVWR (Class III). I tried to reason with them (I offered to get a de-rated F350 but they were stuck on the 1 ton language), but they wouldn't budge. It inspired me to do a very deep dive into special ordering the most capable and comfortable F250 Ford makes. I checked every box that enhanced comfort, safety, and capability. I am logic and data driven by nature so I applied those traits to my research. I fully understand the significance of GVWR (or lack thereof) and the resulting payload hit for purchasing such a highly optioned truck. My truck is literally a single leaf spring away from being mechanically identical to a SRW F350 and it has all the requisite capability if not the sticker capacity.

Now that both Ford and GM assign certain 250/2500 trucks with a GVWR over 10,000 pounds, the policy is even more obsolete.

So in the end, my options were a High Capacity F250, $800 a month, and a fuel card or a F350, $0 a month, and no fuel card. It wasn't much of a choice.

Under typical circumstances, I am very much an advocate for purchasing a truck with both the actual capability and sticker capacity. Many of the weight police are zealots and in their zealously I think they sometimes push people in unintended ways. If someone already has a new F250 and inquires about the possibility of towing a fifth wheel, I think there is value in addressing both the "legal" and practical aspect of that decision. I don't want them to feel attacked and tune out. I also don't want them to end up with some 20,000 pound triple axle behemoth. There is middle ground. That is why I shared with the OP my choice to forego a 310GK or 337RLS and instead go with my 303RLS.

I also can't count the number of times the weight police suggest that the answer is a bumper pull trailer because of it's lower tongue weight as if the weight on the rear axle is the only thing that matters. There is absolutely no way that pulling a 35 foot bumper pull travel trailer while staying under your GVWR is "safer" that pulling a reasonably sized fifth wheel, even if it results in exceeding your GVWR while staying under the ratings of the mechanical components that make up your truck. I've done both and there is no comparison in the experience.