2021 Chevy 3500hd standard bed - Do we need a sliding hitch?? (and other newbie ??'s)

[2Wander]

Hi All,

First post here, I've searched the forum and even called eTrailer, but haven't been able to find out the following:

The Details:
We purchased a 21 Silverado 3500HD, standard bed with the OEM puck system. It is in transit, so for the purposes of this conversation I estimated a 3800 pound payload capacity, it is a 12,100 GVW with the full trailer towing package. IMO, total weight it can tow I think is 20,000 lbs?) is not really relevant due to payload (please be gentle if you don't agree). I read on e-trailer that the pucks on teh 2021's were moved back about 2 inches from the 2020's. Can anyone confirm or deny? Does that give us enough space?

The fifth wheel (our first) is a 21 GD Reflection 310RLS.
Actual PIN 9,849 Dry (per sticker on trailer)
Total GVW 12,495

Now for the questions:
1) What is the best hitch system to use with this set up?
I really wanted to go with a Goosebox (I was raised on a farm and understand gooseneck trailers) but it looks like we wont have clearance if we do. Is anyone successfully using this?
(why I like the idea - Clean bed, no heavy hitch to move around)

Failing that, if we have to go with a sliding hitch which one do you use and why?
How heavy is it?
How noisy is it? (nothing like having something squeal and grown towing it at slow speed through the RV park - our first weight distributing hitch sounded like we were towing a half dead cow behind us. It was really, really bad)
Ride?
Chucking?

Anderson Hitches - looked at those, but the failures are a significant concern. We are generally not bound to paved rounds and have been known to take the TT down forest service roads. We want something that will not fail, period. BUT, it needs to have the articulation so it doesn't stress the frame of the trailer, the hitch or the truck.

2) I keep staring at the payload of the trailer and trying to figure out how we could put that much stuff in it. The listed payload is roughly 2400 pounds (I rounded down). The reason I am asking is that we would like to take this thing boondocking here and there and having the ability to tow it comfortably with the truck when loaded is important.
Based on my calcs we are at about 50% of payload running dry.
Fully loaded - we are running about 67% of payload (leaves me with roughly 1,350 pounds in the truck - hence a lighter weight hitch).
Generally speaking, there will only be two adults (my husband and I), the dog (50 pounds), the cat, the generator and fuel in the truck. We also may put luggage up there, but with the space in the new trailer, most likely not. (we are moving up from a 22ft TT)

Any feedback and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Kathy

[bertschb]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

There is no such thing as best hitch (or "best" anything for that matter). It's very personal and subjective. For example, I LOVE the Hensley Trailersaver airbag hitches and won't use anything else. It makes for a super smooth ride in the truck and also protects the RV because of how it absorbs shock. But, they are more expensive than most other hitches and I'm just about the only person on the forum that has one so my opinion doesn't mean much. The Andersen and B&W Companion are the two most popular hitches here (according to a poll I started a couple years ago).

If you search the forum for sliding hitch, you'll find dozens of threads and several hours of reading on the subject. Same with "best hitch". Dozens of threads.

As for your truck and the payload rating, you are fine. The Reflection 310RLS even fully loaded to GVWR will be under your truck's tow and payload ratings. You are one of the few here that actually has "enough" truck for the 5th wheel they plan to purchase. Good job!

[2Wander]

Thank you! I am certainly hoping we have the right combination now. This is our first 5'er, our second trailer (first was a TT) and our third tow vehicle. Making sure we had a matched pair this time was at the top of my list. Churning tow vehicles is expense and I'll never trust a salesman at an RV dealer again.

I completely understand that 'best' is subjective and what works best for some, wont for others. However, listening to other's opinions is very valuable and often I find things brought to my attention that I would not have otherwise considered. For all the hours I've spent reading the forum threads you mentioned (before I posted here) I haven't really found much on the new GMC/Chevy trucks in the short bed configuration (that was a shock too - that truck is huge!) I was hoping for some responses from owners on what they are using.

I've spent a fair amount of time on the phone with Bill over at eTrailer, and he suggested that we use the Reese Fifth Airborne/Sidewinder combination. That sounds like a good option and again, any additional thoughts or ideas (alternative products?) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for the feedback.
Kathy

[Wynn1427]

Welcome to the forum. Seems there are a few 3500HD floating around. Ours is a 2020 so who knows what minor tweaks they may have made for the 2021'd (when I was shopping for our truck, dealer indicated that GM was almost ready to open up order period for 2021's in October with projected Dec/Jan delivery date. So probably not to many 2021's on the road at this point in time)

- 3800# payload estimate will be close to door jamb sticker, ours was 3727#. Just had it weighed last week without trailer, full tank and myself and got 5000# Steer Axle, 3580# Drive Axle, 8580# Total Axle. So our true payload will be 12100 - 8580 = 3520#. Looking to weight our full trailer setup sometime next week

- Towing sticker on door jamb should show 20k conventional, 21.2k Gooseneck (5th wheel) (100lb less then trailer guide). Working with payload of number above minus additional passengers/misc items will probably be around max tounge weight of 3180# anyways. Assuming a 22% tongue weight gets trailer GVWR of 3180# / 0.22 = 14450# (will vary depending on one's actual truck payload). Yes the salesman tend to only look at the 20k and when you talk payload with them they start to zone out and say "we sell these trailers all the time for that size truck" bet you do buddy. As bertschb already noted, you guys look good on the truck selection and trailer choice.

- From what I understand, the 2020's bed was longer and ball sits another few inches back which may result in 8± shift back on these trucks which can help with turning from previous body style. But also keep in mind that the Goosebox also pushs the trailer back another ~3/4" - 1" from what I have seen on the dimensional product sheets of Lippert 1621 pinbox vs Goosebox which also helps turning.
Our setup
Additional reference link with photos of an identical setup
Video reference link ~12:00-15:00

- Hitch system falls to a personal choice and probably not a wrong answer here. Clearance issue on standard 5th wheel hitch? Need to seek out someone with pinbox and hitch setup you plan to use. DW is on FB group for GD trailers and specific for 31MB, guessing there may also be a 310RLS group that can post optional hitch setups with your truck. As noted earlier we run 16k Goosebox and main goal was clean bed also and liked the overall dampening system with airbag/shocks (ie engineering makes sense when I review the overall design). A friend rode with my setup once I got goosebox installed and noticed the difference from his. The push and pull was still there, but felt the dampening out was better then his standard 5th wheel hitch.

Have a friend who has 150 reflection (turning point pinbox) but when he had turnover ball installed it was just center hole (no 4 hole puck system around turnover all) so his B&W companion was just nominally bolted down at corners with very small thru bolts not capable of utilizing the turning point and has to keep his pinbox locked in. Just keep that in mind if you do swap pinbox out for Reese Fifth Airborne/Sidewinder which appears to be similar to turning point you want to get hitch that anchors into the full puck system on the four corners as it seems the offset swivel pinbox needs anchors at corners to transfer the overturning forces of the offset. Again we can have a whole discussion just on what is or isnt approved by grand design but even with sidewinder pinbox swap still have extra cost of still getting a hitch. All I can say is when researching I was looking at Anderson Hitches and two option orange receiver one way pushes 5th wheel closer (ie worse for standard bed) and other way pushes further away (ie creates more moment in pinbox/5th wheel frame) I understand why GD can have an issue with the increase offset. Just in my quick analysis early on, Goosebox put ~4% more vs AUH put ~22% more moment into the 5th wheel frame (when orange receiver was oriented to push the 5th wheel back from the truck).

- Need to remember that payload add to trailer doesn't always contribute to 1:1 payload added to hitch/truck. Yes these have most of storage in front which will contribute more to hitch weight, but tanks are back towards axles (less weight contribution to the hitch). From what I have seen from hitch survey I would assume fully loaded (12495#) take 22% of that 12495*.22 = 2748# + passengers/misc still seems to leave plenty of room. From what we have in there now I also have feeling that there is no way we are near the payload capacity with stuff we have put in, but start to figure 8.33# / gallon water and start filling tanks is where the weight starts to ratchet higher.

- Yes this is a big truck, went shopping on Sunday and picked up on Tuesday and when I went to get in it realized DW and kids had never even sat in it since there were none in town when we went looking. Get home and both kids a separate times noted how big the door was compared to my old 1500. Overall I have been happy with our setup so far and most time truck doesn't act like the trailer is even back there, but excited to put some time/miles on our setup over the next year.

[Second Chance]

We towed a Reflection 337RLS about 13,000 miles with a GMC Sierra standard bed (2013) without a sliding hitch (used an Andersen Ultimate rail mount in that truck). The front caps of the new fifth wheels are contoured to help with cap-to-cab clearance. I was able to get the truck and trailer at about an 80 degree angle before things got close enough to make me nervous - and who wants to do that, anyway?

I'm not a fan of anything that puts gooseneck style stresses on a fifth wheel RV frame. It's not designed for it. If you go Goosebox, though, it won't void your frame warranty since Reese and Lippert are in bed together. There are many happy users out there. If I were in your shoes again, I would probably go with a PullRite SuperGlide or a Demco Hijacker autoslide and not worry about it. If you want something like the Andersen Ultimate without the failure reports, PullRite makes the SuperLite. Same concept but better implemented IMHO.

Rob

[SmokeyBear]

Hi All,

First post here, I've searched the forum and even called eTrailer, but haven't been able to find out the following:

The Details:
We purchased a 21 Silverado 3500HD, standard bed with the OEM puck system. It is in transit, so for the purposes of this conversation I estimated a 3800 pound payload capacity, it is a 12,100 GVW with the full trailer towing package. IMO, total weight it can tow I think is 20,000 lbs?) is not really relevant due to payload (please be gentle if you don't agree). I read on e-trailer that the pucks on teh 2021's were moved back about 2 inches from the 2020's. Can anyone confirm or deny? Does that give us enough space?

The fifth wheel (our first) is a 21 GD Reflection 310RLS.
Actual PIN 9,849 Dry (per sticker on trailer)
Total GVW 12,495

Now for the questions:
1) What is the best hitch system to use with this set up?
I really wanted to go with a Goosebox (I was raised on a farm and understand gooseneck trailers) but it looks like we wont have clearance if we do. Is anyone successfully using this?
(why I like the idea - Clean bed, no heavy hitch to move around)

Failing that, if we have to go with a sliding hitch which one do you use and why?
How heavy is it?
How noisy is it? (nothing like having something squeal and grown towing it at slow speed through the RV park - our first weight distributing hitch sounded like we were towing a half dead cow behind us. It was really, really bad)
Ride?
Chucking?

Anderson Hitches - looked at those, but the failures are a significant concern. We are generally not bound to paved rounds and have been known to take the TT down forest service roads. We want something that will not fail, period. BUT, it needs to have the articulation so it doesn't stress the frame of the trailer, the hitch or the truck.

2) I keep staring at the payload of the trailer and trying to figure out how we could put that much stuff in it. The listed payload is roughly 2400 pounds (I rounded down). The reason I am asking is that we would like to take this thing boondocking here and there and having the ability to tow it comfortably with the truck when loaded is important.
Based on my calcs we are at about 50% of payload running dry.
Fully loaded - we are running about 67% of payload (leaves me with roughly 1,350 pounds in the truck - hence a lighter weight hitch).
Generally speaking, there will only be two adults (my husband and I), the dog (50 pounds), the cat, the generator and fuel in the truck. We also may put luggage up there, but with the space in the new trailer, most likely not. (we are moving up from a 22ft TT)

Any feedback and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Kathy

I own a 2020 GMC Sierra Denali 3500 and you are correct the gooseneck puck sits about 2" behind the rear axle. We just purchased a Reflection 337RLS and will pick it up in a few weeks. I do not want a 5th wheel hitch in my bed and have been researching the Reese Goosebox and the Gen Y 5th wheel to Gooseneck conversion more months. (https://genyhitch.com/product/execut...ion-flex-copy/). I really like how this is built, the torsion flex and the fact there are no air bag to mess with. I know there are lots of opinions on both of these, and the warranty with Lippert, but there are alot of users of the Gen Y out there. Gen Y is working with Lippert to recognize their product which is the same principle as the Goosebox. Congrats on the Silverado...GMs new HD trucks are very nice, you will like it.

[2Wander]

Welcome to the forum. Seems there are a few 3500HD floating around. Ours is a 2020 so who knows what minor tweaks they may have made for the 2021'd (when I was shopping for our truck, dealer indicated that GM was almost ready to open up order period for 2021's in October with projected Dec/Jan delivery date. So probably not to many 2021's on the road at this point in time)

- 3800# payload estimate will be close to door jamb sticker, ours was 3727#. Just had it weighed last week without trailer, full tank and myself and got 5000# Steer Axle, 3580# Drive Axle, 8580# Total Axle. So our true payload will be 12100 - 8580 = 3520#. Looking to weight our full trailer setup sometime next week

- Towing sticker on door jamb should show 20k conventional, 21.2k Gooseneck (5th wheel) (100lb less then trailer guide). Working with payload of number above minus additional passengers/misc items will probably be around max tounge weight of 3180# anyways. Assuming a 22% tongue weight gets trailer GVWR of 3180# / 0.22 = 14450# (will vary depending on one's actual truck payload). Yes the salesman tend to only look at the 20k and when you talk payload with them they start to zone out and say "we sell these trailers all the time for that size truck" bet you do buddy. As bertschb already noted, you guys look good on the truck selection and trailer choice.

- From what I understand, the 2020's bed was longer and ball sits another few inches back which may result in 8± shift back on these trucks which can help with turning from previous body style. But also keep in mind that the Goosebox also pushs the trailer back another ~3/4" - 1" from what I have seen on the dimensional product sheets of Lippert 1621 pinbox vs Goosebox which also helps turning.
Our setup
Additional reference link with photos of an identical setup
Video reference link ~12:00-15:00

- Hitch system falls to a personal choice and probably not a wrong answer here. Clearance issue on standard 5th wheel hitch? Need to seek out someone with pinbox and hitch setup you plan to use. DW is on FB group for GD trailers and specific for 31MB, guessing there may also be a 310RLS group that can post optional hitch setups with your truck. As noted earlier we run 16k Goosebox and main goal was clean bed also and liked the overall dampening system with airbag/shocks (ie engineering makes sense when I review the overall design). A friend rode with my setup once I got goosebox installed and noticed the difference from his. The push and pull was still there, but felt the dampening out was better then his standard 5th wheel hitch.

Have a friend who has 150 reflection (turning point pinbox) but when he had turnover ball installed it was just center hole (no 4 hole puck system around turnover all) so his B&W companion was just nominally bolted down at corners with very small thru bolts not capable of utilizing the turning point and has to keep his pinbox locked in. Just keep that in mind if you do swap pinbox out for Reese Fifth Airborne/Sidewinder which appears to be similar to turning point you want to get hitch that anchors into the full puck system on the four corners as it seems the offset swivel pinbox needs anchors at corners to transfer the overturning forces of the offset. Again we can have a whole discussion just on what is or isnt approved by grand design but even with sidewinder pinbox swap still have extra cost of still getting a hitch. All I can say is when researching I was looking at Anderson Hitches and two option orange receiver one way pushes 5th wheel closer (ie worse for standard bed) and other way pushes further away (ie creates more moment in pinbox/5th wheel frame) I understand why GD can have an issue with the increase offset. Just in my quick analysis early on, Goosebox put ~4% more vs AUH put ~22% more moment into the 5th wheel frame (when orange receiver was oriented to push the 5th wheel back from the truck).

- Need to remember that payload add to trailer doesn't always contribute to 1:1 payload added to hitch/truck. Yes these have most of storage in front which will contribute more to hitch weight, but tanks are back towards axles (less weight contribution to the hitch). From what I have seen from hitch survey I would assume fully loaded (12495#) take 22% of that 12495*.22 = 2748# + passengers/misc still seems to leave plenty of room. From what we have in there now I also have feeling that there is no way we are near the payload capacity with stuff we have put in, but start to figure 8.33# / gallon water and start filling tanks is where the weight starts to ratchet higher.

- Yes this is a big truck, went shopping on Sunday and picked up on Tuesday and when I went to get in it realized DW and kids had never even sat in it since there were none in town when we went looking. Get home and both kids a separate times noted how big the door was compared to my old 1500. Overall I have been happy with our setup so far and most time truck doesn't act like the trailer is even back there, but excited to put some time/miles on our setup over the next year.

I get to pick up my truck this afternoon - SO EXCITED! I'll post the payload information when I get it - for comparison. The running boards are backordered, so it will be a long step up for me.

Regarding the center puck for the gooseneck hitch - I stopped by the dealership last weekend and the distance from the back of the ball pocket to the tailgate on the 35.5 inches on the standard bed and 43.5 inches on the long bed. After a few conversations and more hours reading forums, I decided to go with the Reese fifth airborne/sidewinder combination. I did look up Lippert and send them an email to confirm compatibility based on your comments and what I dug up here on the subject. Hopefully that comes back positive since the parts are currently in the mail.

The set up should end up being:
B&W 20k fifth wheel hitch for OEM prep package
Reese Fifth Airborne/Sidewinder

I'll post pictures as we put things together. My thought is this setup will give us the best array of options, we get a fifth wheel hitch we can move, keep a fair amount of bed space compared to a slider, get the air ride king pin and if we decide to use the pin box as normal (fixed versus rotating), we still have that option as well (remove the edge and install the bolts).

Yes, payload becomes a problem when you start to run wet for boondocking or dry camping in national parks. I believe we should be okay with the 310. Also looked at the 337RLS but I wasn't comfortable with the additional weight. Trying to make sure we do this one right.

The Chevy is our third tow vehicle in a year. We started with a Jeep Grand Cherokee for our 22 foot TT and it struggled. Then we go the Ram, and we had squat.

When we decided to move to the fifth wheel, my husband just told me to figure out the set up and he'd be good with it (he's the emotional shopper). I'm the 'gear head' in the house and don't get sucked into emotional buying (except maybe my truck, that made me a little emotional!)

Thanks again for the ideas and the confirmation.

[2Wander]

Good point about the rounded fronts of the newer trailers, I do believe that will help with our situation.

And thank you for the note about the warranty, I didn't even think about that. Sent Lippert an email - I'll let you know how they respond.

[Markb777]

[QUOTE=2Wander;344631]Failing that, if we have to go with a sliding hitch which one do you use and why?

I tow a 2018 310GK with a 2017 GMC 3500HD utilizing a B&W Turnover Ball/Companion. Have been into many State parks as well as National parks and have never had an issue concerning the RV hitting the rear window of my truck. I can get about 70 degrees of turn before it gets close. After a few times you will get a very good idea how close you can comfortably get. As an aside I've been searching for some type of device which would beep when the two surfaces get to within 6" of each other similar to what's included in the bumpers of just about every late model car, but no joy. You should be fine without the slider, for me simpler is always better.
Mark

[Wynn1427]

I get to pick up my truck this afternoon - SO EXCITED! I'll post the payload information when I get it - for comparison. The running boards are backordered, so it will be a long step up for me.

Regarding the center puck for the gooseneck hitch - I stopped by the dealership last weekend and the distance from the back of the ball pocket to the tailgate on the 35.5 inches on the standard bed and 43.5 inches on the long bed. After a few conversations and more hours reading forums, I decided to go with the Reese fifth airborne/sidewinder combination. I did look up Lippert and send them an email to confirm compatibility based on your comments and what I dug up here on the subject. Hopefully that comes back positive since the parts are currently in the mail.

The set up should end up being:
B&W 20k fifth wheel hitch for OEM prep package
Reese Fifth Airborne/Sidewinder

I'll post pictures as we put things together. My thought is this setup will give us the best array of options, we get a fifth wheel hitch we can move, keep a fair amount of bed space compared to a slider, get the air ride king pin and if we decide to use the pin box as normal (fixed versus rotating), we still have that option as well (remove the edge and install the bolts).

Yes, payload becomes a problem when you start to run wet for boondocking or dry camping in national parks. I believe we should be okay with the 310. Also looked at the 337RLS but I wasn't comfortable with the additional weight. Trying to make sure we do this one right.

The Chevy is our third tow vehicle in a year. We started with a Jeep Grand Cherokee for our 22 foot TT and it struggled. Then we go the Ram, and we had squat.

When we decided to move to the fifth wheel, my husband just told me to figure out the set up and he'd be good with it (he's the emotional shopper). I'm the 'gear head' in the house and don't get sucked into emotional buying (except maybe my truck, that made me a little emotional!)

Thanks again for the ideas and the confirmation.

Congratulations ongetting the new truck. Yes, keep us updated with pictures on final setup you guys go with as its always nice to see the different setups/options for the various tow vehicles.