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  1. #41
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    I'm fairly new at this and I am sure someone will set me straight if I stray too far.

    The way I see it, there are two numbers that play a big part in towing. One the is gross combined vehicle weight of the tow vehicle (GCWR) and that gross weigh of the trailer. GVWR.

    The GVWR of the trailer is pretty straight forward as most trailer mfg. list it. That is the dry weight of the trailer plus all the 'stuff' you carry including water, waste, clothes, toys etc. The difference between the dry weight and loaded weight varies but at a general rule it averages about 2,000 pounds of 'stuff'. Most want to tow without water and waste on board since it adds up pretty quickly at about 8 pounds a gallon but its a good idea to deal with worst case scenarios just in case.

    The GCWR of the tow vehicle is the maximum weight of the vehicle with the trailer attached and all the 'stuff' in the trailer and the vehicle including passengers. This can be a challenge to determine at times since there are so many variables including vehicle options like engine, transmission, rear end axle ratio, 4WD, cab, towing packages etc. The same vehicle, depending on how equipped, could range from 6,000 to 12,000 pound towing capacity. The best bet is dig into the owners manual and find your exact vehicle configuration. If you are not sure of the axle ration and other tid bits, look up your VIN or vehicle build codes or visit your dealer. Knowing the exact stats on your tow vehicle is important. Also consider the hitch, suspension, wiring harness, braking system etc.

    One other thing to consider is altitude. Most towing limits are based at sea level. Increases in altitude, for instance driving through the Rockies near Denver, can reduce vehicle horse power, torque etc by as much as 10% thereby reducing towing capacity.

    Now ... my example ....

    I have a 2017 1500 GMC Sierra SLT. To be more specific.
    Short box
    Cab - Crew Cab
    Engine 5.3 Ltr L83
    Drive – 4WD
    Axle Ratio – 3.42
    8 speed Automatic Trans
    Enhance Towing Package

    Even with all this info the GVWR is in a range of– 7,000-8,000 lb

    The Maximum Trailer Weight – 10,800 lb

    The GCWR is 16,700 lb - maximum weight of a vehicle with a trailer attached


    If I were to select, say, a Grand Design Imagine 2610ML With a GVWR 7995 lbs (trailer that is loaded with all my 'stuff' to the max).

    The trailer weigh it well within the maximum of 10,800 for the vehicle with about 2,800 pounds to spare.

    If the truck is maxed (GVWR) of 8,000 and the trailer is maxed at 7995 that totals 15995 pounds. The GCWR of the truck + trailer is 16,700 pounds. Thats only a 705 pound safety margin.

    Granted, these are all max values and if you are smart, you would not load every thing down to the max. But think about that possible 10% loss in towing at high altitudes. Thats in the neighborhood of 1,500 pounds.

    On a long haul, that is a lot of stress to put on a vehicle and even a little error like loss of traction, a flat, full waste/water tanks, and so on could be bad news.

    I am sure a dealer would love to sell you a 6,000 pound dry weight trailer for your 10,000+ pound capable tow vehicle and tell you it will be fine. But will it be fine?

  2. #42
    Rolling Along RV Sailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditchdoc View Post
    I'm fairly new at this and I am sure someone will set me straight if I stray too far.

    The way I see it, there are two numbers that play a big part in towing. One the is gross combined vehicle weight of the tow vehicle (GCWR) and that gross weigh of the trailer. GVWR.

    The GVWR of the trailer is pretty straight forward as most trailer mfg. list it. That is the dry weight of the trailer plus all the 'stuff' you carry including water, waste, clothes, toys etc. The difference between the dry weight and loaded weight varies but at a general rule it averages about 2,000 pounds of 'stuff'. Most want to tow without water and waste on board since it adds up pretty quickly at about 8 pounds a gallon but its a good idea to deal with worst case scenarios just in case.

    The GCWR of the tow vehicle is the maximum weight of the vehicle with the trailer attached and all the 'stuff' in the trailer and the vehicle including passengers. This can be a challenge to determine at times since there are so many variables including vehicle options like engine, transmission, rear end axle ratio, 4WD, cab, towing packages etc. The same vehicle, depending on how equipped, could range from 6,000 to 12,000 pound towing capacity. The best bet is dig into the owners manual and find your exact vehicle configuration. If you are not sure of the axle ration and other tid bits, look up your VIN or vehicle build codes or visit your dealer. Knowing the exact stats on your tow vehicle is important. Also consider the hitch, suspension, wiring harness, braking system etc.

    One other thing to consider is altitude. Most towing limits are based at sea level. Increases in altitude, for instance driving through the Rockies near Denver, can reduce vehicle horse power, torque etc by as much as 10% thereby reducing towing capacity.

    Now ... my example ....

    I have a 2017 1500 GMC Sierra SLT. To be more specific.
    Short box
    Cab - Crew Cab
    Engine 5.3 Ltr L83
    Drive – 4WD
    Axle Ratio – 3.42
    8 speed Automatic Trans
    Enhance Towing Package

    Even with all this info the GVWR is in a range of– 7,000-8,000 lb

    The Maximum Trailer Weight – 10,800 lb

    The GCWR is 16,700 lb - maximum weight of a vehicle with a trailer attached


    If I were to select, say, a Grand Design Imagine 2610ML With a GVWR 7995 lbs (trailer that is loaded with all my 'stuff' to the max).

    The trailer weigh it well within the maximum of 10,800 for the vehicle with about 2,800 pounds to spare.

    If the truck is maxed (GVWR) of 8,000 and the trailer is maxed at 7995 that totals 15995 pounds. The GCWR of the truck + trailer is 16,700 pounds. Thats only a 705 pound safety margin.

    Granted, these are all max values and if you are smart, you would not load every thing down to the max. But think about that possible 10% loss in towing at high altitudes. Thats in the neighborhood of 1,500 pounds.

    On a long haul, that is a lot of stress to put on a vehicle and even a little error like loss of traction, a flat, full waste/water tanks, and so on could be bad news.

    I am sure a dealer would love to sell you a 6,000 pound dry weight trailer for your 10,000+ pound capable tow vehicle and tell you it will be fine. But will it be fine?
    There’s towing capacity which you discussed but I think you are not taking into account the PAYLOAD capacity off the towing vehicle. This can even get broken down. You’d be suprised how many trucks have trendous towing capacity in reserve, but exceed the payload capacity of the truck.

    As and example our Ram 2500 with 6.4 liter V8 Hemi 410 hp vrs the relative same Ram 1500 with 5.7V8 Hemi 390 hp
    Towing capacities are over ( depending on options ) 2500-14,000, 1500- 11,000. Both are quite capable

    However the 2500 has payload capacity of 3330 lbs and the 1500 is 1800 lbs

    Generalizing the PAYLOAD capacity is 15 % of the loaded trailer weight + hitch weight+ weight of occupants + weight of equipment, tools , generator, doodads in the bed of the truck+ weight of any clothing supplies, food in the cab of the truck.

    So a 7000 lb trailer ( .15x = 1050 lbs) , 2 occupants (averaging 150 lbs), hitch 75 lbs you are at 1425 lbs without equipment , food, etc . That 1500 only has 375 lbs before reaching its payload capacity limit, while the 2500 has another 1500 lbs to go. PAYLOAD capacity needs to be taking into account. They all can handle the towing but can they handle the payload.
    Donna and Dave
    Annapolis, Maryland
    2021 Grand Design Imagine 2500RL / Dodge Ram Longhorn 2500 6.4 Hemi
    350 W Newapower Solar: 3000 Victron Inverter/ Charger: Firefly Oasis carbon foam AGM

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV Sailor View Post
    There’s towing capacity which you discussed but I think you are not taking into account the PAYLOAD capacity off the towing vehicle. This can even get broken down. You’d be suprised how many trucks have trendous towing capacity in reserve, but exceed the payload capacity of the truck.

    As and example our Ram 2500 with 6.4 liter V8 Hemi 410 hp vrs the relative same Ram 1500 with 5.7V8 Hemi 390 hp
    Towing capacities are over ( depending on options ) 2500-14,000, 1500- 11,000. Both are quite capable

    However the 2500 has payload capacity of 3330 lbs and the 1500 is 1800 lbs

    Generalizing the PAYLOAD capacity is 15 % of the loaded trailer weight + hitch weight+ weight of occupants + weight of equipment, tools , generator, doodads in the bed of the truck+ weight of any clothing supplies, food in the cab of the truck.

    So a 7000 lb trailer ( .15x = 1050 lbs) , 2 occupants (averaging 150 lbs), hitch 75 lbs you are at 1425 lbs without equipment , food, etc . That 1500 only has 375 lbs before reaching its payload capacity limit, while the 2500 has another 1500 lbs to go. PAYLOAD capacity needs to be taking into account. They all can handle the towing but can they handle the payload.

    In my example I gave the GVWR as being in a range of– 7,000-8,000 lb. That is the truck including the payload. The truck weight empty is listed as 5299 lbs. So worst case, if you accept 7,000 as the max, the difference is 1,701 pounds of payload capacity for the truck with no consideration of the trailer. I did not separate the two and just combined it in a gross combo weight.

    Either way, the big picture was to present the major factors of trailering capacity and to give a real life example similar to the OPs situation. I think his rig is suitable for weekend trips in relatively flat terrain but marginal for say, a cross country trip of several weeks unless he is very adept with managing loads and traveling light. My worst nightmare is a heavy load pushing me downhill on twisty wet roads in the mountains with a tow vehicle not up to the job.

    Safe travels

  4. #44
    Seasoned Camper Refclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellionprime View Post
    Good question. The truck is paid for, and has 150,000 miles on it... but I felt like I was stopping a lot to fill up gas, the wind was making me want more power in the truck, and just overall comfort for long drives I am wondering if a HD would really be better.

    This being said, the truck works very well on 2-3 hour drives.
    I tow our 22MLE with a 2018 GMC 1500 Crew Cab with the 6.2L V8 with the 8-speed trans. More than enough power. I use and Anderson 12,000 lb WD Hitch with 1,200 lb Bars. The bars ride on brake pad material and they do a great job of controlling any sway and no noise. I presently have on order a new 2021 Chevy 1500 Crew cab with the HD trailer pkg. with the 6,2L.and a 10-speed trans. Only draw back with the 6.2 is that you have to use premium fuel, but I will take that as it has a ton of power (420hp with 460 lbs of torque)
    Roger & Debbie
    2020 XLE 22 MLE
    2021 Chevy 1500 LTZ 4x4
    Crew Cab with, 6.2L V8 With HD Tow Pkg

  5. #45
    Seasoned Camper Chewwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refclown View Post
    . . . Only draw back with the 6.2 is that you have to use premium fuel, but I will take that as it has a ton of power (420hp with 460 lbs of torque)
    Check your GMC owners manual. We have the 6.2L and 8 speed transmission in our 2017 Silverado 1500. The owners manual states, “Unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 87 may be used, but it will reduce performance and fuel economy.”

    Frankly, I can’t tell any difference in performance or MPG when using 87 octane when towing or RV. MP$ is less though.

  6. #46
    Setting Up Camp puffdaddy's Avatar
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    Just driving (not towing) my F150 averaged 14.2 Litres/100 km while my 2500 averages 18.1 Litres/100 km, so essentially 25-30% worse fuel economy, but like I said, everything comes with a price.

  7. #47
    Seasoned Camper Refclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    Check your GMC owners manual. We have the 6.2L and 8 speed transmission in our 2017 Silverado 1500. The owners manual states, “Unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 87 may be used, but it will reduce performance and fuel economy.”

    Frankly, I can’t tell any difference in performance or MPG when using 87 octane when towing or RV. MP$ is less though.
    It says that in my manual as well...but I prefer the power and I'd rather not take a chance with the low octane fuel. Mileage is a constant 15 mpg around town and 20-23 mpg on the highway. Towing our 22MLE is gets between 10-12 mpg depending on the terrain...I usually keep the speed between 58-62 mph when towing
    Roger & Debbie
    2020 XLE 22 MLE
    2021 Chevy 1500 LTZ 4x4
    Crew Cab with, 6.2L V8 With HD Tow Pkg

  8. #48
    Setting Up Camp Hellionprime's Avatar
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    Well, like I said previous, I took the advice to stick with the 1500 vs HD. I went with the 2021 Silverado LTZ 1500 Diesel Crew Cab Regular Box. Just brought her home today.

    I live in Minnesota, so won’t be another couple months until I tow my 23BHE.

    I will provide a towing report when I do. Until then, cheers to an awesome 2021 Camping Season.

  9. #49
    Seasoned Camper Chewwi's Avatar
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    Silverado 5.3L V8 1500 Crew Cab vs 2500 HD **Gas**

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellionprime View Post
    Well, like I said previous, I took the advice to stick with the 1500 vs HD. I went with the 2021 Silverado LTZ 1500 Diesel Crew Cab Regular Box. Just brought her home today.

    I live in Minnesota, so won’t be another couple months until I tow my 23BHE.

    I will provide a towing report when I do. Until then, cheers to an awesome 2021 Camping Season.
    Good for you! Other than potentially a larger fuel tank, I see no significant advantage to a diesel engine in the 1500. Heavier engine, and likely less payload. But that’s not a big deal with your 23BHE.
    Last edited by Chewwi; 02-25-2021 at 10:06 PM.

  10. #50
    Site Sponsor NB Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewwi View Post
    Good for you! Other than potentially a larger fuel tank, I see no significant advantage to a diesel engine in the 1500. Heavier engine, and likely less payload. But that’s not a big deal with your 23BHE.
    Fuel economy is the biggest advantage
    Torque of the 6.2 , 460 lb/ft but has a 50 percent increase in fuel economy


    2021 Imagine 2400 BH
    2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew
    2021 Imagine 2400 BH
    2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew 1840lb payload

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