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  1. #1
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    Question about the Reflection 150 series 260RD

    Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and I look forward to your input.

    I have a 2020 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.7L Cummins truck. I am finding out that with a payload of just 2096 lbs, I have to focus on travel trailers or very light 5th wheels. So I am looking at the 260RD. What I wanted to ask is this. Grand Design says that the 260RD has a hitch weight of 1325 lbs. But I've read that for 5th wheels, wet hitch weight (I believe this means max hitch weight) is about 22% of the GVWR (9995 lbs) which is over 2000 lbs. Having a payload of just 2096, that means I can't tow this 5th wheel. Does anyone know why the hitch weight Grand Design is providing is 1325 lbs and not 2000+ lbs? Someone on another forum suggested that Grand Design might have moved the axles on the 5th wheel forward to make the pin weight lighter. Would this be an accurate suggestion or is it something else allowing for the pin to be lighter than the standard of 22% of GVWR?

    The answer is important in determining if I can continue to consider this 5th wheel for purchase. I want to be smart about this and safe. I see plenty of 3/4 ton trucks pulling large 5th wheels and I suspect many are unsafe. I don't want to be in that crowd.

    Thanks for your input.

    Dan
    Last edited by CodyWyBound; 11-13-2020 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CodyWyBound View Post
    Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and I look forward to your input.

    I have a 2020 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.7L Cummins truck. I am finding out that with a payload of just 2096 lbs, I have to focus on travel trailers or very light 5th wheels. So I am looking at the 260RD. What I wanted to ask is this. Grand Design says that the 260RD has a hitch weight of 1325 lbs. But I've read that for 5th wheels, wet hitch weight (I believe this means mad hitch weight) is about 22% of the GVWR (9995 lbs) which is over 2000 lbs. Having a payload of just 2096, that means I can't two this 5th wheel. Does anyone know why the hitch weight Grand Design is providing is 1325 lbs and not 2000+ lbs? Someone on another forum suggested that Grand Design might have moved the axles on the 5th wheel forward to make the pin weight lighter. Would this be an accurate suggestion or is it something else allowing for the pin to be lighter than the standard of 22% of GVWR?

    The answer is important in determining if I can continue to consider this 5th wheel for purchase. I want to be smart about this and safe. I see plenty of 3/4 ton trucks pulling large 5th wheels and I suspect many are unsafe. I don't want to be in that crowd.

    Thanks for your input.

    Dan
    Dan,

    I think the best way to get a solid data point on a 260RD, is to go to a dealer with one in stock and ask to see the build sheets. My new 303 came with a weight ticket that showed the axle, side to side, and pin weight, AS BUILT, not some fantasy number in a brochure. GD listed the 303 about 1700# pin weight, my trailer was 10,100# dry and a pin weight of 1950#, no options... load it up for the road and I will be very close to 22% on the pin rolling down the road.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Big Traveler Wicked ace's Avatar
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    You are good to be concerned but by using approximations not apropos you are overestimating the hitch weight. Most 1/2 ton towable 5W will be in the 18% hitch weight range. From practical experience I know this holds true of a 260RD whether dry weight or loaded. Take the brochure dry weight and multiply by .18 and you'll see. So to get a worse case take the GVWR of a 260RD, which I believe is 9500# and do the same (BTW that model was derated after my model year as mine is 9900#). In the post above Dan gives a good way to get real data on a trailer. The numbers on my build sheet were all within 10# of the scale weights I took. On the B&W hitch site there is a calculation sheet that I used in my search, it was a valuable tool. If you put practical and honest numbers in you can be confident of the results.
    From a practical perspective take mine as an example. The dry weight was 7303 with a hitch weight almost right at the brochure number. After loading with all my gear, cloths, tools, food etc., I'm around 8500# loaded. The hitch weight I found was 1550#at weigh in. If I fill the fresh water tank about 1/3 or about 15 gallons (125# approx.) the hitch weight remains close. In my case I have 2050# of usable payload on my truck, so that leaves 500# to play with, certainly not overloaded or near it.
    The 260RD has a high cargo capacity relative to many and 1200# of stuff is quite a bit but I'm loaded for long trips during three seasons and pretty much leave it packed as such. Also note my tow vehicle is an F150 with heavy payload capacity. As an aside I'll mention that as soon as I saw the Andersen Ultimate Hitch I was drawn both by the weight saving over a traditional hitch and the practicality of installing and removing it, you should consider it.
    So to get to the moral of the tale, I believe you would be fine but as you are seeing the diesel engine can be a penalty.
    Last edited by Wicked ace; 11-13-2020 at 04:55 AM.
    2018 F150 XLT 301a, Screw, 4x4, HDPP, Max tow, Andersen Ultimate w/ Curt Double Lock hitch.
    2019 Grand Design Reflection 150 series 260RD.... SOLD!!!!.

  4. #4
    Site Team Ynot4me2's Avatar
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    This thread can maybe shine some light on real people numbers.
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

    Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
    Steph & Lise
    2019 F150 Lariat 2.7 EB
    2020 Imagine XLS 22MLE

  5. #5
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    Thank you all for the input received so far. Tomorrow we are going to take a look at a 260RD and I will take a photo of the sticker on it to get the specs. One of the reasons I asked on this forum is I figured there would be more knowledgable people here that would be straight with me. On another forum, when I asked the same question, the response was GD was basically lying to the consumer just to sell the unit. I'm sorry but from all I have seen in video reviews and read on this forum, GD was a very good quality manufacturer of RVs. That type of response wasn't helpful for me or anyone else. Anyway, thanks and if others have input, that would be greatly appreciated. I will read that thread Ynot4me2.

  6. #6
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    Wicked ace, I use the following to help estimate tongue/pin weight and it uses dry weights and then calculates the pin weight starting at 18.1% with the ability to adjust the pin weight by as much as 5%. Here is the link: http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...06&lw=9995&a=1

    According to this, at 18.1% of the dry weight of 1325, the estimated pin weight would be 1809 lbs with no adjustment. The form by default sets the adjustment to 3% which would make the estimated pin weight at 2109 lbs. My max payload is just 2096 so if the upper value is correct, then I'm over before I add anything to my truck or 5th wheel . At the lower value, I would have 287 lbs available which isn't much but could be workable.

    You have 46 lbs less payload than I do yet you are able to tow the 260RD just fine? What has been your experience? How far do you typically drive when you go camping (or even better do you live full time in it which is what we would want to do)? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot and not trying to be judgemental. I think we all need to decide what we feel is safe and I realize that there could be consequences for being over truck ratings if involved in an accident or stopped for some reason and forced to be weighed and found to be over. I wonder if there is some percentage of leeway for going over one of the ratings (in this case, payload) built into the numbers but I could be wrong and I know I risk having someone chastise me for the thought but that is fine.

    Appreciate your thoughts.

  7. #7
    Long Hauler bertschb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CodyWyBound View Post
    ... On another forum, when I asked the same question, the response was GD was basically lying to the consumer just to sell the unit.
    Not true. Grand Design, like basically all manufacturers, lists their pin weights for an empty RV. No batteries, propane, water, etc. Grand Design actually goes one step further than some manufacturers by using their average build spec for listing UVW and pin weights. In my case, all three of the Grand Design 5th wheels I've ordered were delivered with actual pin and UVW weights that were very close to advertised weights.

    I'm glad to see you are paying attention to the payload rating of your truck. Most people don't. A LOT of people buy 3/4 ton diesel trucks for towing RV's and most of them exceed their payload rating.
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
    2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  8. #8
    Big Traveler Txfivver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CodyWyBound View Post
    On another forum, when I asked the same question, the response was GD was basically lying to the consumer just to sell the unit. I'm sorry but from all I have seen in video reviews and read on this forum, GD was a very good quality manufacturer of RVs. That type of response wasn't helpful for me or anyone else. Anyway, thanks and if others have input, that would be greatly appreciated. I will read that thread Ynot4me2.
    In addition to the great points Brian made above, Grand Design also supplies the exact weight sheet on every trailer they make. They weigh them as they come off the line so you'll know exactly where you're starting from weight wise.
    2019 Solitude 375RES Onan 5500 Splendide W/D Samsung res. fridge
    2020 Ford F450 Platinum dually 6.7L 4:30 gears
    B&W Companion for Ford puck system 20K lbs
    Jeff

  9. #9
    Long Hauler bertschb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txfivver View Post
    ...Grand Design also supplies the exact weight sheet on every trailer they make.
    Good point Jeff. Dan ( @CodyWyBound ) can ask the dealer for the weight sheet of the 260RD he looks at so he'll know exactly what the empty pin weight is.
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
    2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bertschb View Post
    Good point Jeff. Dan ( @CodyWyBound ) can ask the dealer for the weight sheet of the 260RD he looks at so he'll know exactly what the empty pin weight is.
    Perfect, I will do that. Thanks for the tip!

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