Rough ride with new Imagine 2670MK

**sande005** · 03-17-2021, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Texas Telephone_Man

Thanks for the reply. I had come to the same conclusion, that I needed to upgrade my WDH, if I was going to keep the King Ranch. I have a few questions about your reply.

1. I had the trailer weight at 7420, which is what it said on the scale. Do you get 8400 by adding the 7420 plus the tongue weight of 980?
2. You said that I needed to get more weight on the steer, that I had restored a bit more than 50% of what I had lost. Can you explain that?
3. It seems to me that I am pushing the limits of what this truck can handle. Even if I spend $$$$ for the ProPride and get the weight distribution correct, and smooth out the handling, will this truck always struggle, especially if I'm towing the trailer through the mountains of Tennessee and Virginia, which I plan to do in September?

Final conclusion: I'm not as smart as I thought. I thought because the King Ranch's towing capacity was much greater than the maximum trailer weight, that I should be good. There's a lot more than that that goes into safe towing.

1. I took the total weights for everything, and subtracted the weight of the truck only (14040-5640 = 8400). 8400 - 7420 = 980 tongue weight. (BUT - I should have used the trailer weight without the WD bars set, so correct would be 8400 - 7280 = 1120 tongue weight) 1120/8400 = 13.3%
2. Truck front end with no trailer was at 2960. With trailer and NO wd bars set it was at 2500, so 460 lbs off the front. With the bars set, you got 2740, so you got back 240 lbs, or about half of what came off without the bars set. So however they are set, try tightening them up more, to get closer to the original front weight of 2960.

So, it appears you really do have more than adequate tongue weight to avoid true sway problems. Whew! Apologies for my error! While the ProPride is a GREAT hitch, and can help a lot with other handling problems, it probably is overkill in this case.
So, if we've concluded that true sway is not the first order concern, it comes down to better setup to try to tame the beast, and whether or not it's "enough truck".

The sticker says the truck GVWR is 6750. You scaled it at 5640. So 6750-5640 = 1,110 payload possible. With a tongue weight of 1,120 you are maxed out. Hope the wife, dog, kids, etc. were in the truck when you went across the scale.
8,400 is really heavy for the trailer. Mine loaded for a couple of weeks (just 2 of us, and 2 dogs) scales at about 7600-7800, with no liquids. But full water tanks could add 416 to that number. Full black and gray another 650. So either of those could add a huge amount to the numbers.
Mine, as noted, has a tongue weight of about 920-940. If you can get close to the same, that gives more margin for truck payload.

Cheap to try:
1. Get more weight on the front wheels! Tighten up those weight distribution bars.
2. Air up the tires to the max on the sidewalls. Even on my Heavy Duty payload version, this helps immensely!

Varying levels of cost:
1. Get better tires - "E" range, that have much stiffer sidewalls, and usually higher max pressures.
2. Sway bars, stronger weight distribution bars for the current hitch, or a different hitch. Others can comment on the suitability of the Fastway e2 hitch you have, and perhaps suggest if there are better.
3. Stiffer shocks.
4. Air bags, sumo springs, or other - these usually help with bounciness/wiggle/bottoming out of the rear end due to lots of weight. They make the ride better, but don't increase how much weight you can carry.

My 3.5 Eco pulls both the 2670MK (and my prior 5th wheel) fantastically over mountains. All over the Colorado Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas, up to altitudes of 9500 ft. Many 6-7% grades, a couple even worse. Could pass any semi struggling up the hills that I wanted to pass.
Last fall had problems in W Va. doing so...but after I got back discovered the plugs and their coils were shot, and the fuel injection system just wasn't providing pressure to the injectors....so it now seems to have its "pep" back. Headed to KY and TN in a month, so we'll find out!

So - see what you can loose for weight, increase the weight distribution, air up those tires and give it a good test - that may be all you need to do.

**Texas Telephone_Man** · 03-19-2021, 08:24 PM

An update for those following along:

We took the TT to the lake on Wednesday(3-17)of this week. It’s only about a 45 minute ride from our house, but it was one of the most terrify rides I have taken in a while. A cold front moved through North Texas around noon that day, and the wind was blowing 30-40 MPH, with higher gusts. It was all I could do to control the trailer. I had to slow down to about 40 MPH to keep the sway and bouncing to a minimum. So, after arriving at the lake, I decided to quit nibbling around the edges and do what was necessary to get this fixed. So, here is the plan:

1. On Thursday, I went and put Load Rated E tires on the truck, and had them aired up to 80 psi. Unfortunately, Michelin doesn’t make a Load Rated E tire to fit the King Ranch, so I had to settle for Nitto. They won’t be as good as a Michelin, but I believe they will be a considerable upgrade over what was on the truck.
2. That same night I placed an order for a ProPride hitch. It is supposed to be delivered on Monday.
3. I also have an appointment to have air bags installed next week.
4. Once the air bags and the hitch are installed, I’ll work on the weight for the TT and the TV to get that right. Now that I know true weights from when I weighed the other day, I know what I’m dealing with and can adjust accordingly.

Once all of this is done, I’ll post another update after we take our first trip. Thanks for all the help.

**RV Sailor** · 03-19-2021, 09:27 PM

Sorry , IMHO you are really trying to skirt around the issue. You are at the very least at maximum payload capacity according to your figures. Probably exceeding it. You can moderate what you are feeling but being at that capacity will not change. If you ever tried pulling this trailer with a 250 you would see it’s like night and day.

Yes you may be able to fidget with minor adjustments , add air bags, but you’ll still be at capacity. Not to mention that your tranny and suspension leafs are no where as robust as a 250.

So yes in optimal conditions you may be mostly safe. But the road doesn’t always give you that as you saw in one trip. And what about accident avoidance.

You may not like this, but I’m surprised you didn’t sit it out with 40+ winds. Safety should never take a back seat. Personally if I was driving and the combo was reacting the way you described it, I’d have pulled over and waited till the winds died. No trip is worth being a danger to yourself or others. But you drove on.

Our 2500RL trailer is just a tiny bit lighter than yours at 7995 lbs loaded. We pull with a 3300 lb payload capacity and it behaves like a dream . Your payload capacity according to the Ford Motor Company for a F150 King Ranch is 2400 lbs.

You’ll get it to drive OK with the alterations but when faced with less than ideal conditions you are running the risk of it suddenly getting away from you. According to you this has happened already. I suggest should you face that again. Pull over and wait.

**sande005** · 03-19-2021, 09:47 PM

Pretty much everything I had to do, except I already had the E tires. But swapped mine out from original to Michelin's (it was due for tires anyway...)
The instructions for the ProPride are very clear. I had to remove and slightly shift the propane tank holder. That part is easy. There are new "U" clamps to install under it. I just shimmed the tray with stainless fender washers, drilled new holes for the mounting screws, and used slightly longer screws.
You will need to extend the safety chains, I think about 3 links each, but mine is not nearby to verify. I got my chain parts at a local farm store. Big boxes don't sell links stout enough.
I had to relocate the breakaway switch for the emergency brakes. One new screw hole. And rig up an extended cable for it. I got the coiled kind from Camping World/Amazon.
My electrical cord was long enough.
If you run into issues, don't hesitate to give ProPride a call. Day, evenings, weekends they seem to be always at the ready to help if there are issues with installing or adjusting. Usually it is the owner (Sean) or the top production manager that returns the call.

The hitch is heavy. You'd be ahead if after the initial setup you make another pass through a scale so you have a new baseline to start from. Do all three weighs, like you did before.

**Texas Telephone_Man** · 03-20-2021, 08:00 AM

Thank you for your input. Everything you say is true, and things that I have considered. My plan is to make these modifications and see how the rig behaves. If it doesn’t improve the handling to the point that I feel comfortable, then a new 250 is the next step. I’m just trying to avoid that since the King Ranch is so new.

As for the trip the other day, if I had been trying to drive any distance at all, I would have done as you suggested and pulled over. Since it was only 30-45 minutes away, and most of the driving was not on a highway, I pressed on.

Originally Posted by RV Sailor

Sorry , IMHO you are really trying to skirt around the issue. You are at the very least at maximum payload capacity according to your figures. Probably exceeding it. You can moderate what you are feeling but being at that capacity will not change. If you ever tried pulling this trailer with a 250 you would see it’s like night and day.

Yes you may be able to fidget with minor adjustments , add air bags, but you’ll still be at capacity. Not to mention that your tranny and suspension leafs are no where as robust as a 250.

So yes in optimal conditions you may be mostly safe. But the road doesn’t always give you that as you saw in one trip. And what about accident avoidance.

You may not like this, but I’m surprised you didn’t sit it out with 40+ winds. Safety should never take a back seat. Personally if I was driving and the combo was reacting the way you described it, I’d have pulled over and waited till the winds died. No trip is worth being a danger to yourself or others. But you drove on.

Our 2500RL trailer is just a tiny bit lighter than yours at 7995 lbs loaded. We pull with a 3300 lb payload capacity and it behaves like a dream . Your payload capacity according to the Ford Motor Company for a F150 King Ranch is 2400 lbs.

You’ll get it to drive OK with the alterations but when faced with less than ideal conditions you are running the risk of it suddenly getting away from you. According to you this has happened already. I suggest should you face that again. Pull over and wait.

**dkayak** · 03-20-2021, 08:06 AM

I’d like to pose a slightly off topic question.

We just bought an Imagine 17MKE and tow it with a 2017 Cayenne S. The Cayenne is rated to tow 7700 lb with 1150 lb capacity for the car, and tongue weight of 616/770 lb. Tongue weight limits on this VW family are famously ambiguous due to goofy European standards (a very long story). Our loaded trailer weight is easily kept under 5500 lb. and with some tweaking we can dial tongue weight in to 11-13%. The Cayenne pulls it effortlessly and we didn’t encounter any sway or ride issues on the 3 hour drive home. We’re also using the Fastway e2 round bar hitch, but with lighter bars of course and the TV is quite level. We carry only two adults and two light carbon frame bikes in the car. We’ll hit the scales on our first trip but so far it looks good.

So here’s the question. Where are the tanks (especially fresh water) located with respect to the axles? These tanks are wide and fairly flat, so you can’t determine their effect on CG just based on fill and drain locations. Depending on tank center of gravity, carrying fresh water might load, unload, or have no effect on tongue weight. Carrying 350 lb of fresh water under the floor would lower the CG, but what’s the effect on tongue weight and fore-aft balance (or side to side for that matter)? Is there a cutaway diagram somewhere showing the tanks for each model?

**goducks14** · 03-20-2021, 08:24 AM

Sorry but you have too much trailer for that F150. You just needed to dump $4k into it and will be even more over weight as the Pro Pride will add another 150 lbs to the trucks rear.
If you're at 3880 lbs and add 150 thats 4030 lbs. 20 lbs less than the RAWR.

I'm all in on the Hensley.Pro Pride hitches but in this case even though you'll get rid of potential sway you'll still have porposing issues and be at or above the GVWR of the truck.
That $4k IMO would've been better used to get into an F250.

**NB Canada** · 03-20-2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by dkayak

I’d like to pose a slightly off topic question.

We just bought an Imagine 17MKE and tow it with a 2017 Cayenne S. The Cayenne is rated to tow 7700 lb with 1150 lb capacity for the car, and tongue weight of 616/770 lb. Tongue weight limits on this VW family are famously ambiguous due to goofy European standards (a very long story). Our loaded trailer weight is easily kept under 5500 lb. and with some tweaking we can dial tongue weight in to 11-13%. The Cayenne pulls it effortlessly and we didn’t encounter any sway or ride issues on the 3 hour drive home. We’re also using the Fastway e2 round bar hitch, but with lighter bars of course and the TV is quite level. We carry only two adults and two light carbon frame bikes in the car. We’ll hit the scales on our first trip but so far it looks good.

So here’s the question. Where are the tanks (especially fresh water) located with respect to the axles? These tanks are wide and fairly flat, so you can’t determine their effect on CG just based on fill and drain locations. Depending on tank center of gravity, carrying fresh water might load, unload, or have no effect on tongue weight. Carrying 350 lb of fresh water under the floor would lower the CG, but what’s the effect on tongue weight and fore-aft balance (or side to side for that matter)? Is there a cutaway diagram somewhere showing the tanks for each model?

You should start a new thread
But I do not believe there is a cutaway of the under carriage

2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

**Texas Telephone_Man** · 03-20-2021, 08:28 AM

Thanks for your help to this point. I came across a thread on this forum from 2018 where you were helping another RV’er with these very same issues. I noticed that his trailer was considerably heavier than yours, as mine is. He identified the 2nd AC unit, as well as things he had stored under the bed, as the reason for the difference. I also have the 2nd AC unit, and we have stored gallon jugs of water under the bed to try and increase the tongue weight. I know that I’m walking a fine line with these weights, but he seemed to be able to solve his handling problems, and I’m confident I can too. I will take your suggestion and re-weigh after I install the hitch. I’ll post updates on this thread.

Originally Posted by sande005

Pretty much everything I had to do, except I already had the E tires. But swapped mine out from original to Michelin's (it was due for tires anyway...)
The instructions for the ProPride are very clear. I had to remove and slightly shift the propane tank holder. That part is easy. There are new "U" clamps to install under it. I just shimmed the tray with stainless fender washers, drilled new holes for the mounting screws, and used slightly longer screws.
You will need to extend the safety chains, I think about 3 links each, but mine is not nearby to verify. I got my chain parts at a local farm store. Big boxes don't sell links stout enough.
I had to relocate the breakaway switch for the emergency brakes. One new screw hole. And rig up an extended cable for it. I got the coiled kind from Camping World/Amazon.
My electrical cord was long enough.
If you run into issues, don't hesitate to give ProPride a call. Day, evenings, weekends they seem to be always at the ready to help if there are issues with installing or adjusting. Usually it is the owner (Sean) or the top production manager that returns the call.

The hitch is heavy. You'd be ahead if after the initial setup you make another pass through a scale so you have a new baseline to start from. Do all three weighs, like you did before.

**RV Sailor** · 03-20-2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by goducks14

Sorry but you have too much trailer for that F150. You just needed to dump $4k into it and will be even more over weight as the Pro Pride will add another 150 lbs to the trucks rear.
If you're at 3880 lbs and add 150 thats 4030 lbs. 20 lbs less than the RAWR.

I'm all in on the Hensley.Pro Pride hitches but in this case even though you'll get rid of potential sway you'll still have porposing issues and be at or above the GVWR of the truck.
That $4k IMO would've been better used to get into an F250.

Totally agree. Dumping good money into modifying when already at its upper limits seems like a waste. He’s determined to make what he has work it seems.

You can only bring out the facts. Everyone has free choice.