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Thread: Can my TV stop me

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    Site Sponsor iproff1's Avatar
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    Can my TV stop me

    I've seen many posts on here where someone says they have a 1/2 ton and wonder if they can tow a certain trailer and someone always says it will tow it but will it stop it. The will it stop it phrase is used quite often, too often. Coming from an automotive back ground I knew that the answer was yes a manufacture would never build a vehicle give it a 12,000lb tow rating if it could not stop it so today I did some research and discovered that it turns out that there is standard which includes towing, braking, payload, handling including hill climbing. So if a 1/2 ton says it can tow 12,000 lbs the standard says that it can also stop it.
    The standard for towing that all manufacturers must use is J2807.

    I think you will find this an interesting read.

    Ken


    https://tfltruck.com/2019/10/heres-h...e-j2807-video/
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    Big Traveler geotex1's Avatar
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    Do be conscious that SAE J2807 compliance is true for ~2015 and newer models years. Before then, manufacturers did their own in-house testing to support their claims. What was interesting to see was pretty striking differences between model years before and after adoption, yet no design changes made to the truck from one model year to the next. It was entertaining on the truck forums back then.
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    I have a 2020 expedition built on f150 frame with 9200lb tow rating. Towing a 32ft 7k lb trailer. Trailer brakes tuned to proper gain setting are the only way to safely drive, especially on sustained downgrade. You need to control speed carefully and the expy brakes on their own would be hair raising or very short life.

    Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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    Big Traveler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlowefamily View Post
    I have a 2020 expedition built on f150 frame with 9200lb tow rating. Towing a 32ft 7k lb trailer. Trailer brakes tuned to proper gain setting are the only way to safely drive, especially on sustained downgrade. You need to control speed carefully and the expy brakes on their own would be hair raising or very short life.

    Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
    Yeah the J2807 has nothing for real-world towing. It's just to level the playing field in truck makers' claims. I believe the regiment only has a 25mph to 0 mph protocol with and without trailer brakes on level ground and then the truck's E-brake has to hold the combination when parked up and down a defined grade (cannot recall the % slope).

    Interesting, by embracing the standard, it finally resolved the notoriously weak brakes on GM trucks!
    Last edited by geotex1; 04-02-2021 at 06:24 PM.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
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    Mountains of Pennsylvania

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    There's the stuff on paper and then there's the real world. Good luck trying to stop or slow down an 12,500 lb trailer on even the slightest downhill grade..
    You'll smoke the brakes in know time.
    Thats why I tow with a diesel. I can slow down my 9600 lb TT on most any grade up to 6% with just the exhaust brake.
    All I can say is if someone's towing over 5,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton then they better hope the trailer brakes are working.

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    Site Sponsor NB Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goducks14 View Post
    There's the stuff on paper and then there's the real world. Good luck trying to stop or slow down an 12,500 lb trailer on even the slightest downhill grade..
    You'll smoke the brakes in know time.
    Thats why I tow with a diesel. I can slow down my 9600 lb TT on most any grade up to 6% with just the exhaust brake.
    All I can say is if someone's towing over 5,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton then they better hope the trailer brakes are working.

    My GMC has down hill assist. I think every modern truck does. I rarely have to use the brakes
    I find these posts funny. My truck has bigger and better brakes than HD trucks had just over 10 years ago but no body said anything about them


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    Site Sponsor backtrack2015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB Canada View Post
    My GMC has down hill assist. I think every modern truck does. I rarely have to use the brakes
    I find these posts funny. My truck has bigger and better brakes than HD trucks had just over 10 years ago but no body said anything about them


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    We just want the 1/2-ton folks to feel inferior. Same with the 3/4-ton folks towing fifth-wheels.
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    I know that phrase is used, but that isn’t the point at face value. Ford at least also gives frontal area limits for towing. All of them give GVWRs and GAWRs. Way too many people want to get in a travel trailer that’s at or near the max ‘tow rating of the truck’, not understanding that travel trailers are some of the toughest trailers period to tow.

    They have huge surface areas, especially relative to weight. Ask any of the manufacturers if they took a 35ft 13000 lb travel trailer out for those tests on their half ton and they’ll laugh at you. I don’t doubt that the trucks can pull and stop (with trailer brakes) their rated loads. But what the load is matters just as much. A 13k lb twin axle 15ft trailer with bricks on it is much, much different from a travel trailer.

    The tough part is explaining that there is more to it than just the advertised number. So that phrase is used, as are control statements. There is also more safety margin on the larger trucks.
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    Setting Up Camp sirtate's Avatar
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    I'm curious what the 'Big Truck' people would think about running an 80kip 18 wheeler down a mountain pass.

    Are they riding the brakes all the way down to maintain speed? (That would set you up for brake fade and smoke and maybe fire)

    Or do they know about snubbing? (Using purposeful brake applications to dump ~20mph in speed and allowing the brakes to cool as the vehicle speeds back up again)

    Do they slow down when they approach a downhill grade?

    Engine braking is good, but Semi's don't have enough to keep speeds under control at max weights without service brake applications.

    If you do the math on energy that needs to be converted to heat in the brakes (that's all brakes do) you'll see that a 70mph snub to 50mph produces as much heat as a FULL STOP from 50mph...

    Slow down on the hills, it's safer...

    Sent from my LM-G900 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by sirtate; 04-02-2021 at 11:55 AM.

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    Site Sponsor iproff1's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that so many posts here totally missed the standard and all the testing that determines how every single truck is rated for tow, load capacity, braking and cornering.
    2020 Imagine 2450RL
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    2019 F150 Lariat 2.7 Trailer Tow Package
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