First timer Shopping for TV for 21BHE

[TheGreatAdventure]

So, we've purchased our first TT and we're looking to pick up our 21BHE at some point in the next week or two. We have car camped pretty regularly the past couple years, but are looking to up our game.

I'm completely new to the travel trailer world so feel free to respond to me like I'm five. And not in the talk down to me like I'm five, but talk to me like my brain is a sponge and I'm filled with curiosity five. Ha.

We currently have two sedans, so we're looking to get rid of one and purchase a TV that will also serve as our family vehicle.

We're currently looking at a 2019 Nissan Armada - Tow Capacity 8500, Payload 1724. I feel like this should be more than enough. I've read enough boards to know that "you need a truck" is the answer over the half the time. And while I understand that argument I really want to be able to pull this thing with an SUV. It's one of the reasons we went with the BHE to keep us under 25' and on the lighter side. I haven't pulled a trailer since my early 20s so I want some room for error to get used to it. And I plan on going on a couple weekend trips close to Atlanta where we live in the next month before we head up to Maine for a few weeks this summer.

We'll be getting a WDH and a brake control system with our trailer.

My kids are 6 and 4 and we weigh 400 between the four of us. I've read conflicting reports of what the tongue weight is. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before we make the purchase.

Look forward to your responses and excited to get out on the road.

[mekatzer]

What a trip - I'm in nearly the same boat and asked a pretty similar question yesterday: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...-tongue-weight

So as a certified I-don't-know-what-I-don't-know, I'll offer you my .02 because this is the internet, after all:

I'm looking at a Ram 1500, which has a lower payload capacity (~1,500), and the sense I've got is if I'm not willing to go up to a 3/4 ton, I'll be good if I'm careful - so I'd imagine you'll be fine. One thing I didn't realize until I really dug into it is that payload and towing capacity varies by individual vehicle based on installed options. 1724 sounds specific enough that you probably already know that, but I was surprised to learn that the truck I liked initially , with the Cl4 hitch and the fancy tow controller, only had ~1,000 lbs of payload capacity left after all the widgets.

Responses on my thread were 600lbs and 12.5%. There's a thread that turns up in search that has 700-750.

[EsquireRV]

Congrats on your new 21BHE.
The limiting factor on the 2019 Armada is its 850lbs max tongue weight.

The 21BHE is around 4700lbs dry weight.
The GVWR of the 21BHE is 6395lbs. 12.5% of GVWR is 799lbs for proper tongue weight but add a WDH, batteries and propane and you're likely pushed over the 850lbs max of the Armada.

One other often overlooked aspect on the tow vehicle (TV) is the tire ratings. Does it come with P (passenger) tires with soft sidewalls and low load ratings or LT (light truck) tires with higher load ratings and stiffer sidewalls. In a stiff crosswind while towing, the P type tires on the TV will feel squishy and may cause that sudden lane swerve - where the tail begins to wag the dog.
For the safety of you, your kids and spouse, please look at vehicles that provide a healthy safety margin in tongue weight & payload. I'm not saying that the Armada can't tow this trailer, just that you are likely at or exceeding the vehicle's ability to properly tow the 21BHE.

https://letstowthat.com/nissan-armad...ity-2004-2019/
https://www.cars.com/research/nissan-armada-2019/trims/

FYI, the payload you listed is the MAX based on the lowest spec'd SV Armada in a 4x2 configuration (least options = less total vehicle weight).
Platinum 4x4 = 1537lbs payload
Platinum 4x2 = 1584lbs payload
SL 4x4 = 1583lbs payload
SL 4x2 = 1628lbs payload
SV 4x4 = 1678lbs payload
SV 4x2 = 1724lbs payload

[Johnny Trails]

Ask the seller to text you a picture of the payload and GVWR stickers from the door jamb of the Armada. With that folks here can help you run the numbers for the specific vehicle you're looking at. I don't put a lot of stock in tongue weight estimates for a few reasons:

- The actual UVW of your trailer once delivered will likely be higher than what's listed on GD website.
- The tongue weight on GD's website does not include LP tanks or batteries.
- The 21BHE has nearly 1700 lbs difference between UVW and GVWR. How you load it could potentially make a big difference in tongue weight.

Best advice I can give is to be comfortable that your TV can handle the absolute worst case scenario weight-wise and then weigh your rig once you have everything so you know where you're really at. Check this link for weighing instructions:

https://learntorv.com/weigh-rv/

Worst case tongue weight numbers would be 15% of GVWR plus the weight of your WDH. So assuming a 100 lbs for the WDH and a GVWR of 6395 lbs you'd be at 1060 lbs of tongue weight. In the real world I doubt you'd ever get remotely close to that.

[NB Canada]

So, we've purchased our first TT and we're looking to pick up our 21BHE at some point in the next week or two. We have car camped pretty regularly the past couple years, but are looking to up our game.

I'm completely new to the travel trailer world so feel free to respond to me like I'm five. And not in the talk down to me like I'm five, but talk to me like my brain is a sponge and I'm filled with curiosity five. Ha.

We currently have two sedans, so we're looking to get rid of one and purchase a TV that will also serve as our family vehicle.

We're currently looking at a 2019 Nissan Armada - Tow Capacity 8500, Payload 1724. I feel like this should be more than enough. I've read enough boards to know that "you need a truck" is the answer over the half the time. And while I understand that argument I really want to be able to pull this thing with an SUV. It's one of the reasons we went with the BHE to keep us under 25' and on the lighter side. I haven't pulled a trailer since my early 20s so I want some room for error to get used to it. And I plan on going on a couple weekend trips close to Atlanta where we live in the next month before we head up to Maine for a few weeks this summer.

We'll be getting a WDH and a brake control system with our trailer.

My kids are 6 and 4 and we weigh 400 between the four of us. I've read conflicting reports of what the tongue weight is. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before we make the purchase.

Look forward to your responses and excited to get out on the road.

Since it appears the payload you quoted is the number from Nissan on a base 2wd is that in fact what it is you are looking at?
Have the seller take a picture of the payload sticker on the drivers door jamb


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

[TheGreatAdventure]

Thanks everyone.

So I had them take a picture as per a couple of your recommendations, and the payload on the sticker is actually 1653 (750kg), which is baffling because I didn't see any extra options on the SV 4x2 which is listed as 1724 lbs. And I can't find a payload capacity of an armada listed at 1653 anywhere on the internet. I've double checked with the dealer to make sure they took a pic of the right vehicle.

I want to get some confirmation on tongue weight though. Most of the resources I have read say it should be seen as a net 0 addition to tongue weight because of its redistribution of weight to the other axles. Is this wrong?

I really loved our test drive of the Armada earlier in the week, but now I'm wondering if I should buy a much older (but dependable) and less comfortable TV for the summer while I get used to the trailer and I can get some more exact numbers of where we're landing in real life.

Additional thoughts are welcome. Thanks again!

[2ACDogs]

I want to get some confirmation on tongue weight though. Most of the resources I have read say it should be seen as a net 0 addition to tongue weight because of its redistribution of weight to the other axles. Is this wrong?

"Tongue weight" has nothing to do with weight distribution. It's the weight that the tongue plus the hitch pushes down onto the TV . Apparently Nissan says max is 850 lbs.

[EsquireRV]

"Tongue weight" has nothing to do with weight distribution. It's the weight that the tongue plus the hitch pushes down onto the TV . Apparently Nissan says max is 850 lbs.

^^This is correct.
If you load up your trailer *front* heavy (or haul with tanks full), you could easily be at 900 or 1000lbs tongue weight. Yes, the WDH shifts some weight forward to the steering wheels as well as back to the trailer axles but the tongue weight of the trailer doesn’t change. When the trailer is fully loaded and disconnected from the tow vehicle, if you put a scale under the trailer hitch, that’s your tongue weight.

You cannot exceed tow vehicle ratings and still expect to be towing safe. (There’s likely safety factors built into the limits, but why would you knowingly push into that safety factor, leaving nothing left for when an emergency occurs). That’ll likely be the difference of swerving to avoid and recovering vs swerving and being pulled off the road by failure of a component.
Nissan indicates in the link (look under Capacities near the bottom) that the 2019 Armada is capable of 850lbs Max on the hitch.

https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/rel...ada-press-kit#

[Johnny Trails]

So I had them take a picture as per a couple of your recommendations, and the payload on the sticker is actually 1653 (750kg), which is baffling because I didn't see any extra options on the SV 4x2 which is listed as 1724 lbs. And I can't find a payload capacity of an armada listed at 1653 anywhere on the internet. I've double checked with the dealer to make sure they took a pic of the right vehicle.

The sticker on the door jamb is for that specific vehicle as configured and weighed when it left the factory. Anything you see online will either be marketing materials or someone sharing the information specific to their vehicle.

I want to get some confirmation on tongue weight though. Most of the resources I have read say it should be seen as a net 0 addition to tongue weight because of its redistribution of weight to the other axles. Is this wrong?

As others have said, tongue weight refers to the weight put on the tow vehicle by the trailer and hitch. For stable towing most recommend that you should aim to have a tongue weight between 10-15% of your loaded trailer weight. As the name implies, a weight distribution hitch distributes the weight put on your TV by the trailer across both your drive and steer axles. This is important because the hitch receiver of the TV is rated for two different maximum weights - with and without a WDH. There should be a sticker somewhere on the hitch receiver itself with these numbers. Additionally, it's possible for you to be within your front and rear axle weight ratings with the WDH engaged, but over when the bars are removed.

I really loved our test drive of the Armada earlier in the week, but now I'm wondering if I should buy a much older (but dependable) and less comfortable TV for the summer while I get used to the trailer and I can get some more exact numbers of where we're landing in real life.

Additional thoughts are welcome. Thanks again!

You mentioned that you haven't towed anything for a while. You should consider not just whether a potential tow vehicle *can* tow your trailer, but what the overall towing experience will be like. What tow features does it have? 7 pin trailer plug? Transmission cooler? You already said you'd need to install a trailer brake - something that comes standard on a lot of vehicles with tow options. How will it do pulling up a steep grade? Heavy winds? Busy truck lanes? All of those things matter as you drive this thing thousands of miles. Will you be relaxed and chatting with your family or white knuckling? If you're stressed out for the entire drive, how does that impact your family's experience and your trip?

Here's some more accurate numbers based on the door sticker. Let's assume you load the trailer with 1000 lbs of stuff, LP tanks, battery, fresh water, and whatnot. That puts your loaded weight at 5698 lbs. Then lets assume you find a WDH that weighs another 80 lbs. Now you're at 5778 lbs. 13% of that gives you a 751 lb tongue weight. That brings us down to 902 lbs of available payload. After we subtract the 400 lbs in passenger weight you're at 502 lbs of available payload left for cargo.

With the 21BHE I don't think payload will be your limiting factor unless you're loading it to the brim. You have very little leeway on the weight rating of the hitch receiver however. You would need to keep tongue weight down and I don't know about the axle weight ratings. Personally, I would look at something with more robust towing features and specs.

Hope that helps.

[TheGreatAdventure]

Here's the sticker from the door jamb. They said it was for the tire pressure, not the payload of the vehicle. They had already returned home so didn't send me any other stickers. Not exactly sure how you'd separate the two, but anyway... that's what I got.

I appreciate all the thoughts. It seems the general consensus is that I'd probably be fine if I packed my trailer correctly and double and triple checked my TW, but I could be pushing towards the limit.

I'm now leaning towards something a little more robust. I was just hoping to drive something a little more practical for every day. But we'll figure that out when the time comes. I'd like a little more room for error hitting the road.