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  1. #1
    Fireside Member gsitexas's Avatar
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    Bearing Preload/Castle Nut Adjustment Question

    Hello Fellow Grand Design Owners,

    I'm currently in the process of replacing the severely greased brakes on our 2017 303 RLS which has < 3,000 miles on the trailer. I'm replacing the complete backing plate/brake assembly, hubs and upgrading to 16" wheels and Goodyear Endurance tires during the process.

    Yesterday I replaced the brakes/hubs on the Left Front (Drivers) side and today I replaced the Left Rear (Drivers) side. When installing the new hub with new bearings/races I followed the procedure in the Lippert brake/axle manuals by torqueing the Castel Nut to 50 ft-lbs while rotating the wheel, backing off to remove the torque then hand tightening before installing the cotter key.

    The Left Rear preload/castle nut adjustment went perfect, after following the procedure the cotter key hole was lined up perfectly with a slot in the nut after the hand tightening step. This provided just the right amount of runout for when the bearing expanding upon heating.

    However, my issue is with the Left Front hub. Again I followed the procedure in the Lipper manual exactly. After hand tightening the Castel Nut the cotter key hole was not lined up with a slot in the nut. The Lippert procedure say to back the nut off just enough to line up the cotter pin hole. When I follow this procedure the runout seems excessive to me. Probably 1/16" or maybe just a bit more that that amount. End play can be felt when gripping the wheel on the edges and rocking it back and forth. You can hear a slight knock when rocking the wheel back and forth. This just seems too loose to me.

    Thus the reason for my message. What would you do, should I

    1) look for a washer shim to take up a bit of the space behind the Castle Nut with the nut pinned per the Lipper procedure or
    2) tighten the Castle Nut just a bit past hand tight to enable me to line up the cotter pin hole with a slot in the nut that takes up the excessive runout.

    FYI, when I removed the hub as installed by Lippert/Grand Design the Castle Nut was not loose on the axle spindle, I had to use Channel Locks to loosen it after removing the Cotter Pin. This makes me think the factory had the same issue with this axle spindle and implemented Option 2 above.

    One other question pertaining to the Self-Adjusting Brakes. The Lipper Manual says to pre-adjust the brakes by expanding them against the hub until it is difficult to rotated the wheel, then rotate the starwheel in the opposite direction until the wheel turns freely with slight lining drag.

    What is the purpose of this step, is to to center the brake linings within the hub and to minimize the number of adjustments the self-adjusters have to make to set the brake linings at optimum spacing? How much do you guys back off the starwheel after adjusting the linings against the inside of the hub.

    Thanks in advance for your feedback!

    Best regards,

    Keith
    Keith, Karen & Pippa (soft coated Wheaten Terrier)

    Tow Vehicle: 2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD CrewCab 4x4 LTZ Duramax Diesel

    Fifth Wheel: 2017 Grand Design 303RLS

    Hitch: Andersen Ultimate Hitch II - Aluminum

  2. #2
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    IMO, too loose is always better than too tight. Too tight creates heat and that is a bad thing.

    I don’t know that I’ve ever actually measured play, but 1/16th would seem like a lot.
    John & Kathy
    2014 F250 Lariat FX4 6.2L SBCC
    2014 Reflection 303RLS
    SW Indiana

  3. #3
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    Try preloading the nut again to see if that makes any difference. Sometimes it does.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
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    2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
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  4. #4
    Fireside Member gsitexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhittleBurner View Post
    Try preloading the nut again to see if that makes any difference. Sometimes it does.
    Thanks for the recommendation WhittleBurner, I did already try preloading the bearing assembly again to 50 ft-lbs, same issue. : (

    Best regards,

    Keith
    Keith, Karen & Pippa (soft coated Wheaten Terrier)

    Tow Vehicle: 2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD CrewCab 4x4 LTZ Duramax Diesel

    Fifth Wheel: 2017 Grand Design 303RLS

    Hitch: Andersen Ultimate Hitch II - Aluminum

  5. #5
    Big Traveler Calbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsitexas View Post
    Thanks for the recommendation WhittleBurner, I did already try preloading the bearing assembly again to 50 ft-lbs, same issue. : (

    Best regards,

    Keith
    Just follow the instructions and back off to the next slot. I have done the same thing for many years and this is not an issue. I would actually be more concerned with the one that just lined up and you put the cotter pin in without backing it off to the next one. I think you will find in reality that one is too tight and may cause an issue. Per the instructions you are to finger tighten and then back off to the next slot, not put the cotter pin in if you can into the slot that is there. At least this is what my Dexter manual says and I have done on all of mine and never had an issue.

    Rob
    Rob & Barb
    2022 Solitude 378MBS
    2022 RAM 3500 SRW HO Aisin 4x4
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

  6. #6
    Fireside Member gsitexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calbar View Post
    Just follow the instructions and back off to the next slot. I have done the same thing for many years and this is not an issue. I would actually be more concerned with the one that just lined up and you put the cotter pin in without backing it off to the next one. I think you will find in reality that one is too tight and may cause an issue. Per the instructions you are to finger tighten and then back off to the next slot, not put the cotter pin in if you can into the slot that is there. At least this is what my Dexter manual says and I have done on all of mine and never had an issue.

    Rob
    Thank you for the input Rob,

    The Lippert manual states the following starting with Step 3. Prior to Step 3 the castle nut is torqued to 50 ft-lbs and the loosened to remove the torque prior to it being tightened by fingers per Step 3.

    3. Tighten castle nut finger tight until snug.
    4. Insert cotter pin. If cotter pin does not line up with hole, back castle nut up slightly until pin can be inserted.
    5. Bend cotter pin over to lock nut in place. Nut should be free to move with only the cotter pin keeping it in place.

    I followed these procedures as written and on one wheel I had to back the castle nut up a good bit after finger tight to insert the cotter pin and on the other wheel the hole was lined up at the finger tight location.
    Keith, Karen & Pippa (soft coated Wheaten Terrier)

    Tow Vehicle: 2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD CrewCab 4x4 LTZ Duramax Diesel

    Fifth Wheel: 2017 Grand Design 303RLS

    Hitch: Andersen Ultimate Hitch II - Aluminum

  7. #7
    Big Traveler Calbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsitexas View Post
    Thank you for the input Rob,

    The Lippert manual states the following starting with Step 3. Prior to Step 3 the castle nut is torqued to 50 ft-lbs and the loosened to remove the torque prior to it being tightened by fingers per Step 3.

    3. Tighten castle nut finger tight until snug.
    4. Insert cotter pin. If cotter pin does not line up with hole, back castle nut up slightly until pin can be inserted.
    5. Bend cotter pin over to lock nut in place. Nut should be free to move with only the cotter pin keeping it in place.

    I followed these procedures as written and on one wheel I had to back the castle nut up a good bit after finger tight to insert the cotter pin and on the other wheel the hole was lined up at the finger tight location.
    I looked at the Lippert maintenance manual as well and noted the difference between it and my Dexter one. With your Lippert axles I would use their directions for the preload so you have done exactly what they instruct so you should be good, even with the one that you had to back the castel nut off. I would not be concerned about it as the castelations are designed to provide preload to the minimum or maximum requirement. The first one may be close to the minimum and the second one closer to the maximum.

    Rob
    Rob & Barb
    2022 Solitude 378MBS
    2022 RAM 3500 SRW HO Aisin 4x4
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

  8. #8
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    You did it correctly...too tight is bad.

    PSA

    Now when you stop do you check the temp of the hub with a infrared gun? I do every stop...I want to know if something isn't right before I'm on the side of the road with issues. When I check them I'm just looking for all temps to be within 10%. One side will always be hotter than the other. I just shoot between the lug nuts.

    Red
    Location - Wherever the road takes us...Full-timers
    2015 Momentum 380
    2019 Ram Dually

  9. #9
    Fireside Member gsitexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el Rojo View Post
    You did it correctly...too tight is bad.

    PSA

    Now when you stop do you check the temp of the hub with a infrared gun? I do every stop...I want to know if something isn't right before I'm on the side of the road with issues. When I check them I'm just looking for all temps to be within 10%. One side will always be hotter than the other. I just shoot between the lug nuts.

    Red
    Thank you el Rojo, i do intend to order an infrared gun prior to our next trip to monitor hub/brake temps at each stop, any recommendations?

    I will also have a new TMS installed for that trip as I've having metal valve stems installed when the new Goodyear Endurance tires are mounted on the new 16" wheels.

    Best regards,

    Keith
    Keith, Karen & Pippa (soft coated Wheaten Terrier)

    Tow Vehicle: 2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD CrewCab 4x4 LTZ Duramax Diesel

    Fifth Wheel: 2017 Grand Design 303RLS

    Hitch: Andersen Ultimate Hitch II - Aluminum

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsitexas View Post
    Thank you el Rojo, i do intend to order an infrared gun prior to our next trip to monitor hub/brake temps at each stop, any recommendations?

    I will also have a new TMS installed for that trip as I've having metal valve stems installed when the new Goodyear Endurance tires are mounted on the new 16" wheels.

    Best regards,

    Keith
    No recommendations. I have an old Sears, I think I paid $100. They're a lot cheaper than that now.


    FYI, Don't shoot anyone in the eyes with it.
    Location - Wherever the road takes us...Full-timers
    2015 Momentum 380
    2019 Ram Dually

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