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  1. #1
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    2020 GM Denali 2500 (+ 303rls Reflection)

    So, I have had my fifth wheeler for a little over a year and would appreciate some opinions of those of you who are into this sort of thing. I think I might want to downsize my fifth wheel a bit based on my truck, but I'd like to hear from some experienced folks. I have a 2020 GM Denali 2500 and I am towing a 303rls Reflection. I've taken about 6 trips with it from Winter Springs, FL, each trip between 250 - 300 miles one way and then back. The 6.6 Duramax and 10 speed Allison have given me between 10 - 11 mpg (slight downhill or some wind at my back and I can squeak 12 mpg out of it). I try to keep the cruise control set at 71 mph and sitting at 1500 RPM. The truck has plenty of power and acceleration, and I feel like it handles well, there's no white-knuckling it feeling. I try to keep the rake of the truck like it was without a load (just a little squat 1 to 1.5 inches) by using Firestone airbags that sit where the original bump stops were. Max psi for the airbags is 100 psi. I keep the airbags at 5 psi without any load and when I put the pin on her I pump them up to between 40 - 45 psi. Like I said, the truck sits level and has good ride quality.

    CAT Scales the weight of the Truck by itself (with a full tank of fuel, the hitch installed, and me, my wife, and the dog in the truck). The sticker in the door jam says:
    GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) 11,350
    GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) 27,500
    RGAWR (Rear Gross Axel Weight Rating) 6,600
    Curb Weight 8,314
    Max Payload 3,036
    Gooseneck TWR 18,500
    Max Pin Weight 2,775

    The actual CAT Scale weight of the Truck is:
    GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) 8,560
    FGAW (Front Gross Axel Weight) 5,060
    RGAW (Rear Gross Axle Weight) 3,500


    The average CAT Scale weight of the Truck + Trailer is:
    GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) 19,580
    FGAW (Front Gross Axel Weight) 5,030
    RGAW (Rear Gross Axle Weight) 6,030
    TAW (Trailer Axle Weight) 8,520

    I figure my Pin weight to average 2,530 (this would be the difference in my RGAW with and without the trailer) or 6,030 - 3500 = 2,530
    I figure the Trailer weight to average 11,050 (this would be the Pin Weight plus the TAW) or 2,530 + 8520 = 11,050
    Pin weight is about 23%

    My concern is that I am about 260 lbs from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 11,350. This would be the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) of 8,560 plus the Pin Weight of 2,530 = 11,090
    If I take the FGAW (5,030) and the RGAW (6,030) with the fifth wheeler attached, I'm 290 lbs from GVWR of 11,350.

    This setup, though it feels fine is within a couple of hundred pounds of the stated maximum weight limits. Do you think that's safe?

  2. #2
    Seasoned Camper Tgunter5's Avatar
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    I think your good to go but my opinion isn't worth much because I have ZERO experience pulling 5th wheels. I do enjoy reading and learning about this topic as we plan on purchasing one in the future. I found this website from another thread that was posted by "Rob"....... http://towingplanner.com/Calculators...ayloadEstimate

    You can plug in some weights and it will calculate how much trailer you can have. I also plugged in your CAT scale weights and all your calculations were spot on!!!!
    2020 GMC Sierra 2500 AT4 6.6L Gasser
    2020 Imagine 2400BH

  3. #3
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    Goodness gracious - based on the detailed numbers shared, you are more than in the safe zone. Vehicle capabilities and safety as shared by our vehicle Engineer friends over the years, are more than published numbers. This said, it is shared by many of us to operate W/I vehicle maximum specifications for various reasons. You are doing this.

    Many of us pull 303s with 3/4 ton HD trucks and the combination is a good match and works very well. And prior generation HD GMs up until the new models in 2020 were in some respects rated less capable based on published specifications but certainly more than capable and doing so safely with this combination.......and in some cases even heavier (pin and axles) fivers particularly gassers.

    By the way my Cat Scale #s for our heavily loaded 303 numbers were very close to yours. Truck empty, is quite lighter by several hundred lbs for the 2011-2014 generation even though this generation was much more capable than the prior generations. Full of fuel and driver our truck weighed 7840 W/O hitch. Gross for both truck and 303 was 19820 lbs. after adding hitch and several hundred lbs. in rear seat of truck.

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
    2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD
    2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

  4. #4
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    Thanks

    Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm just paranoid about being safe. I appreciate the input.
    attached is a photo of my Truck and 303
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSS_2020 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm just paranoid about being safe. I appreciate the input.
    attached is a photo of my Truck and 303
    Click image for larger version. 

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    GDRVs and black pickups (especially GMs if I dare say !) look really good together ! Great looking combo.

    Considering safety as a top item is important for you and others. Good for you to think about this !

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
    2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD
    2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor MN-Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSS_2020 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm just paranoid about being safe. I appreciate the input.
    attached is a photo of my Truck and 303
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	34818
    Great looking set up WSS!
    Mark & Megan & Levi (our floppy eared four legged furry friend)
    2019 Reflection 303RLS
    2019 Chevy Silverado 3500HD Duramax
    B & W Companion

  7. #7
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    Numbers are within spec of the truck and overall towing information has been similar on ours with very similar trailer (don't have airbags on mine and sits pretty level, maybe a tad low on back end if you look hard enough).

    Interesting to see that 3500 SRW (mine) vs 2500 (yours) curb weight tag difference is only 8373 - 8314 = 59#. Minor differences Link and seen this in a handful of other threads as well. Makes me think that the 2020 2500hd could be a little under rated in the payload capacity with airbags you added. Figure smaller axle ring on 2500 drops the overall tow capacity numbers, and leaf spring/tire/shock change on 3500HD gets the extra GVWR (12,100#) / payload (3727#) / RGAW (7250#). If chasis/various parts are the same in back may just a formality in the numbers between 2500/3500? Gussing yours has

    2500 Rear Axle Parts
    3500 Rear Axle Parts
    Axle housing has different numbers, but differential cover/gasket/misc parts seem to have matching part #'s
    2020 GMC 3500 Denali SRW SB Duramax 4x4
    2021 Reflection 31MB Goosebox 16k

  8. #8
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    I have a similar setup and concern. I have the same truck but pulling a 31MB. Just over 7000 miles with the 5th wheel. I've been staying under the capacity ratings in the same range you are, but just recently noticed a slight sag when not hooked up.

    I'm thinking about adding a leaf (recommended by my local truck chassis shop) that will add 1" of lift to the rear and 700lbs to the payload. Still calling around for other opinions locally on leaf vs air or other alternatives. Not happy about this sag and with you on safety concerns. Leaning toward adding a leaf.
    Building Campgrounds at ROAM Campgrounds
    2020 GMC Sierra 2500
    2020 Reflection 31MB
    On the road since 2014

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor avf100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSS_2020 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm just paranoid about being safe. I appreciate the input.
    attached is a photo of my Truck and 303
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	34818
    Thanks for this picture! Now I have to go buy a black truck !! Click image for larger version. 

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    People keep telling me to follow my dreams...so I went back to bed

    2019 303rls
    2017 GMC 2500hd ccsb 2wd 6.0 gas
    Andersen ultimate rail mount hitch

  10. #10
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	35749

    They look good with the new color 303 too
    Greg & Kris
    303RLS
    20’GMC2500 AT4

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