WFCO Converter Charger Confusion

[JKellerJr]

Okay, after more research I think I now understand the need to upgrade the converter charger with the new lithium battery. And I realize how much more I need to learn about all of this. Now, I do have a couple of more questions if anyone cares to respond...
1. If installing a Progressive Dynamics converter charger for lithium, is it necessary to install larger gauge wire to the battery? Looking at YouTube it appears everyone just swaps out the WFCO with the PD but that doesn't mean it's correct. Just want to check.

If you replace the converter with the same amperage as the original then your existing wiring is fine.

2. From my research, it appears that charging lithium to 80-85% rather than 100% will help the battery last much longer. Since the Progressive Dynamics unit does not have any variable settings, it will automatically charge to 100%. I want to add solar components next year. Once those components are installed, is that where I would gain the ability to control the max charge threshold, even if charging through the converter charger? I'm thinking I would sacrifice a bit of capacity for longevity, but haven't found clear information yet about how much of a difference it would make in the life of the battery.

As was said above, not all lithium's are the same. I have no knowledge on the brand you went with, the seller should help you with that. I bought all my components from Battleborn including the batteries because I wanted the backup. I'm no expert but they are and they are great at answering questions and making suggestions on set ups and programming of the components. I'm sure there are other sellers that will do the same.

I would contact your seller and see if they will help you out. They should have specific knowledge of what is best for your batteries.

[Riverbug]

If you replace the converter with the same amperage as the original then your existing wiring is fine.



As was said above, not all lithium's are the same. I have no knowledge on the brand you went with, the seller should help you with that. I bought all my components from Battleborn including the batteries because I wanted the backup. I'm no expert but they are and they are great at answering questions and making suggestions on set ups and programming of the components. I'm sure there are other sellers that will do the same.

I would contact your seller and see if they will help you out. They should have specific knowledge of what is best for your batteries.

Got it, thanks. I sent the manufacturer the question; will see if I get a response.

[huntindog]

Okay, after more research I think I now understand the need to upgrade the converter charger with the new lithium battery. And I realize how much more I need to learn about all of this. Now, I do have a couple of more questions if anyone cares to respond...
1. If installing a Progressive Dynamics converter charger for lithium, is it necessary to install larger gauge wire to the battery? Looking at YouTube it appears everyone just swaps out the WFCO with the PD but that doesn't mean it's correct. Just want to check.
2. From my research, it appears that charging lithium to 80-85% rather than 100% will help the battery last much longer. Since the Progressive Dynamics unit does not have any variable settings, it will automatically charge to 100%. I want to add solar components next year. Once those components are installed, is that where I would gain the ability to control the max charge threshold, even if charging through the converter charger? I'm thinking I would sacrifice a bit of capacity for longevity, but haven't found clear information yet about how much of a difference it would make in the life of the battery.

#1
If you do a straight swap. a 45 amp fpr 45 Amp etc. the existing wire will do fine. However you MAY be able to upsize. It depends on just what gauge wiring you have, and how long it is. I eas able to go from a 55 amp to an 80 amp converter, because I had 6 gauge wiring. You MAY be able to do similar.

#2
If you have battle Borns, I would not sweat it. They are in a different league from all of the rest. Will proswe(sp) just did da tear down of one on You tube. He counted the individual cells (It is like a Tesla battery pack) and the 100 amp battery is actually good for 120 amps new. Look up the video and see for yourself. He has also torn down a lot of other batterys. Watch some of those to. A ten year warranty and Will says he now sees why,.

[Riverbug]

#1
If you do a straight swap. a 45 amp fpr 45 Amp etc. the existing wire will do fine. However you MAY be able to upsize. It depends on just what gauge wiring you have, and how long it is. I eas able to go from a 55 amp to an 80 amp converter, because I had 6 gauge wiring. You MAY be able to do similar.

#2
If you have battle Borns, I would not sweat it. They are in a different league from all of the rest. Will proswe(sp) just did da tear down of one on You tube. He counted the individual cells (It is like a Tesla battery pack) and the 100 amp battery is actually good for 120 amps new. Look up the video and see for yourself. He has also torn down a lot of other batterys. Watch some of those to. A ten year warranty and Will says he now sees why,.

Thanks much. I'll check to see what gauge wire is running to the battery, but fairly certain it isn't 6 gauge - might be 8. The SOK battery is also Will approved which is how I found them. They offer 206AH for $1,026, which I like. But they've only been on the market for a year so time will tell if it is a good buy.

[Riverbug]

Got it, thanks. I sent the manufacturer the question; will see if I get a response.

In case anyone is interested, I received a fast response from Min at SOK Battery. This is the quote in response to whether it will extend the batteries life to avoid always charging to 100% and discharging to 0%...

"yes, correct. do not 100% charge and 100% discharge is better for cycles life. I would suggest you set: charge voltage 13.5V, discharge voltage cut off at 12.8V."

Based on the research I've done, I believe this is true generally for most if not all lithium. At one point I was told something similar when contacting Battle Born, but at the time I didn't know what any of that meant.

To me this means it is not ideal for battery life to just use the Progressive Dynamics converter charger without the ability to set parameters for charge and discharge. I realize that even at 100% the battery will outlive any lead acid, but with the investment I'd like to maximize longevity as much as possible as long as it isn't hampering my capacity to the point that it diminishes its usefulness. So, guess I need to figure out if there is a way to set charge parameters when I'm only using a converter charger...?

[rootusrootus]

Min ain't dumb, so I'd follow up and make sure that isn't a typo. A lithium battery likely won't charge at all at 13.6 or less. That's why it's the recommended float voltage, because you don't want to trickle charge a lithium battery. For really long life, 14.1 is a good absorption level.

[huntindog]

In case anyone is interested, I received a fast response from Min at SOK Battery. This is the quote in response to whether it will extend the batteries life to avoid always charging to 100% and discharging to 0%...

"yes, correct. do not 100% charge and 100% discharge is better for cycles life. I would suggest you set: charge voltage 13.5V, discharge voltage cut off at 12.8V."

Based on the research I've done, I believe this is true generally for most if not all lithium. At one point I was told something similar when contacting Battle Born, but at the time I didn't know what any of that meant.

To me this means it is not ideal for battery life to just use the Progressive Dynamics converter charger without the ability to set parameters for charge and discharge. I realize that even at 100% the battery will outlive any lead acid, but with the investment I'd like to maximize longevity as much as possible as long as it isn't hampering my capacity to the point that it diminishes its usefulness. So, guess I need to figure out if there is a way to set charge parameters when I'm only using a converter charger...?

Copied from BattleBorns website:
battery prefers to bulk charge at 14.4 volts and float at 13.6 volts.


And:
Our charging parameters consist of the following:

Bulk/absorb = 14.2 – 14.6 V
Float = 13.6 V or lower
No equalization (or set it to 14.4 V)
No temperature compensation
Absorption time is 20 minutes per battery (if it’s an option)
12 V

Bulk/absorb 14.2 – 14.6 Volts (we usually recommend 14.4) float 13.6 Volts or lower

No equalization (or set it to 14.4 V), no temperature compensation and absorption time is 20-30 minutes per battery (if it’s an option).

24 V

Bulk/absorb 28.4 – 29.2 V (we usually recommend 28.8 V) float 27.2 V or lower

No equalization (or set it to 28.8 V), no temperature compensation and absorption time is 20 minutes per battery (if it’s an option).

To view the chargers in our Battle Born Shop, please click here.

If you need assistance with charging parameters or settings for a certain device, give us a call at (855) 292-2831 or email us at [email protected].

On the SOK website:
A picture of the battery. Printed on it's side is the charging voltage..... 14.6 volts.

They claim up to 7000 cycles.
If you charge it to the specs in your post, it will last forever,,,,, because it will never get charged.

On an aside: The SOK website is noticeably weak on information. But strong on boasts, written in poor english.

[Riverbug]

Min ain't dumb, so I'd follow up and make sure that isn't a typo. A lithium battery likely won't charge at all at 13.6 or less. That's why it's the recommended float voltage, because you don't want to trickle charge a lithium battery. For really long life, 14.1 is a good absorption level.

Okay, I'll end this thread now. Obviously, it's confusing to me and I'm still learning. My question to Min had to do with whether or not charging to less than 100% will extend the battery life as I had read. I think his typo was in not saying charge voltage "cutoff" 13.5v, and not that he meant it to be the bulk charge voltage. So, very similar to what huntindog provided regarding Battle Born.

Thanks for the responses.

[Flyhighone]

I upgrade my BH2400 with a Lithium battery, and swapped the stock converter with a Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV Converter/Charger. It was an easy install, and has been working very well.

[Malco1]

Okay, after more research I think I now understand the need to upgrade the converter charger with the new lithium battery. And I realize how much more I need to learn about all of this. Now, I do have a couple of more questions if anyone cares to respond...
1. If installing a Progressive Dynamics converter charger for lithium, is it necessary to install larger gauge wire to the battery? Looking at YouTube it appears everyone just swaps out the WFCO with the PD but that doesn't mean it's correct. Just want to check.
2. From my research, it appears that charging lithium to 80-85% rather than 100% will help the battery last much longer. Since the Progressive Dynamics unit does not have any variable settings, it will automatically charge to 100%. I want to add solar components next year. Once those components are installed, is that where I would gain the ability to control the max charge threshold, even if charging through the converter charger? I'm thinking I would sacrifice a bit of capacity for longevity, but haven't found clear information yet about how much of a difference it would make in the life of the battery.

The new Progressive Dynamics lithium chargers made in 2021 are 2 stage chargers as recommended by Battle Born. You should replace your 55A WFCO with a 60A Progressive.