New tow vehicle. How to fairly compare the Ford verses Chevy/GMC diesel truck lines?

**fez111** · 08-25-2021, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by powerscol

My 04 F350 6.0 has coast me over 4K in repairs this trip...

Well we're jealous. Our '06 F250 6.0 cost 15K to bullet proof after a head cracked and trashed the engine 200 miles into our Florida trip in 2018! And that was 'after' we put 4K into it a few months before...

We have 11K on the new engine now thanks to:

www.ashevilleengine.com

**powerscol** · 08-26-2021, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by fez111

Well we're jealous. Our '06 F250 6.0 cost 15K to bullet proof after a head cracked and trashed the engine 200 miles into our Florida trip in 2018! And that was 'after' we put 4K into it a few months before...

We have 11K on the new engine now thanks to:

www.ashevilleengine.com

Don't be - back in 2019 I had the EGR cooler melt down. Took out a head gasket too. They did the EGR delete along with the ARB studs and some other stuff to Bullet proof. That repair ran me $6.5K. Was in the middle of Monument Valley UT Also took over 2K in towing fees to get truck to dealer and RV home.

**Grandesigner** · 08-26-2021, 08:15 AM

I have been agonizing on this for several months, live a 5k feet and tow past 10k, so I hear you on that. I have concluded that with under 10k lbs of 5W, the godzilla with 4.30s and the 10 speed should do just fine. 1000 ft-lb of torque would be awesome but for that kind of money I should not have to worry about a catastrophic failure at all, period. KISS for me.

Here is one piece of the puzzle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HiR9dxvGLY

Have also hit this forum for a while. I am user Back2Gas?
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...as-yet-15.html

Worst case if it doesn't cut it, time for some forced induction without fear of catastrophic failure.

I would also like to hear from those that went this way...

**timlisajax** · 08-26-2021, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by huntindog

The things you did do not address the reason the pumps fail. If I was going to keep such a truck (remember I had one) I would see about a CP3 conversion, or doing a premptive replacement. EVERY motor made will at some point need a new fuel pump... They just do not last forever. On most motors all it takes is a few bucks, an afternoon, and a few beers and you are back on the road.
Only the CP4 takes out the entire fuel system when it lets go. There is zero warning. Everytime you start the truck could be the time your number comes up.
You have already eliminated the emission stuff, so you are part way there to a CP3 conversion.

You're correct - I didn't address why they fail. As was explained to me, the CP4 uses a two-lobe cam and two actuators to pressurize the fuel. Contact is metal-to-metal on those rollers, with a thin film of diesel for lubrication. If there’s insufficient lubrication, they start to skid instead of roll. So I think I'm helping with the Optilube.

So based on your and others input, I am going to look into a C3 conversion. The going price seems to be $3,000 TO $3,500. The kit itself is about $2K and the rest is for about 16 hours of labor. Apparently on the Duramax the pump is located in the valley under the manifold so there's lots of stuff to take off. Wish it was as easy as the old mechanical fuel pumps.

**huntindog** · 08-26-2021, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by timlisajax

You're correct - I didn't address why they fail. As was explained to me, the CP4 uses a two-lobe cam and two actuators to pressurize the fuel. Contact is metal-to-metal on those rollers, with a thin film of diesel for lubrication. If there’s insufficient lubrication, they start to skid instead of roll. So I think I'm helping with the Optilube.

So based on your and others input, I am going to look into a C3 conversion. The going price seems to be $3,000 TO $3,500. The kit itself is about $2K and the rest is for about 16 hours of labor. Apparently on the Duramax the pump is located in the valley under the manifold so there's lots of stuff to take off. Wish it was as easy as the old mechanical fuel pumps.

The rollers are attched to what I call the piston (actuator?) The problem is that the piston can rotate in it's bore causing the roller to turn sidways to the cam. Then the skidding occurs. I have seen pics of torn down failed pumps where this is obvious. In fact another brand has a similar pump, that has a patented design to prevent the piston from rotating. That is what the CP4 needs.
Lubrication plays a very small part in whether the pump lives or dies, and does nothing to prevent the piston from rotating. If it rotates, it dies, no matter how well it is lubricated

**Malco1** · 08-26-2021, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth13777

350=3500. GM and Ram just add a zero

GM and Chevy are virtually the same except styling. Denali GMC is top end vs High Country Chevy. Those in my opinion are similar to Ford’s King Ranch. I won’t comment on what I think of the styling.

You are exactly correct about double cab vs super cab. Ford still does rear hinged doors (and they seem much less common). Chevy and Ram do front hinged doors.

This is not entirely true because the different companies set up their trims a little different, but roughly speaking:
Ford XLT = Chevy LT = GMC SLE
Ford Lariat = Chevy LTZ = GMC SLT
Ford King Ranch/Platinum = Chevy High Country = GMC Denali

Someone feel free to correct me, but does the Denali truly compete with the Limited Ford, or is it a step down in the interior? I know Ram has a trim that does.

Play with the build and price tools. When looking at specific trucks, so long as the power trains are the same (diesel to diesel, gas to gas), cab size, and 4wd/2wd, the prices should be very similar on equivalent trucks from the different makes. Watch out for low GVWR packages that exist purely for tax purposes.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion. In 2019 I had decided to trade in my 2018 Ram, for either a Ford of Chevy. I didn't like that the Ram had coil springs in the rear (2500) model.
On my way down the road the first dealer was GMC. I stopped in and told the salesman that I wanted the top of the line GMC 2500. He had one right outside the showroom a 2019 model Denali. The truck was open and the salesman said I could sit inside while he went to get the key, so I could take it on a test drive. So I am sitting inside looking around at the interior, comparing it to my Ram. When the salesman got back with the key, I asked him if this was the top of the line and he said yes this is the Denali. I said no thanks, this truck is not for me and I left never having driven the truck. In my opinion the inside was crude compared to the Ram. My next dealer was Ford, and I ended up buying a 2019 Ford F-250 King Ranch. That was a beautiful truck, but it was destroyed by squirrels. After replacing 2 main wiring harnesses Ford gave up. They even got my 2020, but I caught it before they did too much damage. Now I keep my truck in the garage.

**ChrisLLynn** · 08-28-2021, 12:12 PM

I almost drove myself nuts trying to compare features between the brands. The more I researched, the less I knew. I finally bought a 2016 Chevy 2500HD and paid the extra $10,000 for the Duramax package. Would a gas burner have done the job? Yes but it didn't have the Allison transmission which I wanted with its smooth shifting and diesel's power. Personal preference. GMC has the Denali package which is the highest GM trim level but its additional features weren't worth the price. Personal preference. I bought a 2016 Chevy Silverado with the LTZ and Z71 package. It has the color matched grille, off-road package, skid plates and a beefed-up suspension. There's no squat when towing and it rides like a dream. Without the TT, the truck's suspension is almost bone jarring but lowering the rear tire pressure 10 pounds helps but is a stiff ride.. That's OK because I don't have to spend money with suspension mods. I use the Equalizer hitch and it is an ideal setup for me.

I suggest spending time at a dealership and see things first-hand. The visual will tell you a lot. Make a list of what you want and see how the trim level stacks up. For me, some features are overblown which was only obvious in-person. Best of luck.

**timlisajax** · 11-27-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by huntindog

The rollers are attched to what I call the piston (actuator?) The problem is that the piston can rotate in it's bore causing the roller to turn sidways to the cam. Then the skidding occurs. I have seen pics of torn down failed pumps where this is obvious. In fact another brand has a similar pump, that has a patented design to prevent the piston from rotating. That is what the CP4 needs.
Lubrication plays a very small part in whether the pump lives or dies, and does nothing to prevent the piston from rotating. If it rotates, it dies, no matter how well it is lubricated

Huntindog - took in your advice and did considerable research on the CP4 failures in GM and other trucks. I finally decided to pull the trigger and have the CP3 conversion installed. Its an expensive mod for something that isn't broken - yet. If I was towing locally, I may have continued to push the envelope, but with trips planned out west and the remoteness of the area, I decided to get it done. I can't imagine the expense of having to be towed in a remote part of southern Utah - both truck and camper, finding lodging, getting set up with a reputable repair shop, etc. That isn't to say something else could happen but I've taken a known issue out of the equation. So for our situation, it seemed like the right thing to do. Naturally everyone has to make their own decisions on things like this.

I requested my old CP4 from the shop and I've attached a few pictures after I opened up the pump. There are two small pistons that ride on roller bearings that are turned by a mini crankshaft - if you will. Think of it as a small two cylinder engine. The pictures clearly show wear and scuffing on the two little pistons and on the cylinder wall of the pump. I'm no expert on this stuff, but that kind of wear isn't normal IMO and I believe I was on the way to an expensive failure. The truck has 105,000 on the clock.

**huntindog** · 11-27-2021, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by timlisajax

Huntindog - took in your advice and did considerable research on the CP4 failures in GM and other trucks. I finally decided to pull the trigger and have the CP3 conversion installed. Its an expensive mod for something that isn't broken - yet. If I was towing locally, I may have continued to push the envelope, but with trips planned out west and the remoteness of the area, I decided to get it done. I can't imagine the expense of having to be towed in a remote part of southern Utah - both truck and camper, finding lodging, getting set up with a reputable repair shop, etc. That isn't to say something else could happen but I've taken a known issue out of the equation. So for our situation, it seemed like the right thing to do. Naturally everyone has to make their own decisions on things like this.

I requested my old CP4 from the shop and I've attached a few pictures after I opened up the pump. There are two small pistons that ride on roller bearings that are turned by a mini crankshaft - if you will. Think of it as a small two cylinder engine. The pictures clearly show wear and scuffing on the two little pistons and on the cylinder wall of the pump. I'm no expert on this stuff, but that kind of wear isn't normal IMO and I believe I was on the way to an expensive failure. The truck has 105,000 on the clock.

I think you dodged a bullet.
I am not suprised by the wear..... Did you always use the additive?

Do post up what you think of the CP3.

**timlisajax** · 11-27-2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by huntindog

I think you dodged a bullet.
I am not suprised by the wear..... Did you always use the additive?

Do post up what you think of the CP3.

I've used the Optilube additive for about the last 40,000 miles now. I'll post my experience with the CP3 but after about 300 miles on the new pump, the truck doesn't feel any different. I really didn't expect it to drive differently, but knowing I may have dodged a significant breakdown, brings tremendous peace of mind. IMO it wasn't a matter of if - but when. I think the pictures support that.