Had to bypass my EMS.......Anyone else have to?

[wannabervin]

I had a Progressive Industries EMS that measured low voltage and kept killing power to my unit. Fortunately, I had a meter to check and determined that there was an issue with my EMS. After seeing that my error code was low voltage and seeing the value that the EMS was reading was different than my meter; i did bypass my EMS for that trip.

To Progressive Industries' credit, they very quickly sent me a new unit. All they asked for was a picture of the old one with cable cut; no shipping anything even required. Was a VERY simple warranty process.

We were dealing with a similar issue all last week. Our Progressive EMS was kicking us off showing a low voltage code. But checking the voltage at the post showed one leg at about 118 and the other at 108/109. Does this indicate a malfunction with my EMS? I did not bypass. I just ran the generator during the peak demand periods.


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[bjlakatos]

Just a note--the hard wired versions have a procedure to "calibrate" the display with the line voltage if necessary. I believe the instructions are in the manual but found them on another forum.

Google Progressive <insert model number here> calibration procedure

[traveldawg]

We were dealing with a similar issue all last week. Our Progressive EMS was kicking us off showing a low voltage code. But checking the voltage at the post showed one leg at about 118 and the other at 108/109. Does this indicate a malfunction with my EMS? I did not bypass. I just ran the generator during the peak demand periods.


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Most likely by the time you measured at the pole the voltage was back up over 104VAC. And with a low voltage of 108 VAC it wouldn't take much to drop it to 104 or less for a second and trip the EMS.

As many times as I've measured at the pole after a failure it has never been 104 or less. Just really, really low.

[more tired since retired]

I had never ran one before, including 4 years on our previous Solitude. I did have a autoformer that I probably used 2 or 3 times when the voltage was low.

That being said I'm sure I was on borrowed time. On our new unit I "hardwired" in a Hughes watchdog and the autoformer in the front basement. I say "hardwired" because I used the portable units so I can easily bypass one or both units if something goes wrong with either. It does happen, my dad's hardwired EMS went bad while on a trip.

My understanding is the autoformer may try to increase your voltage, but because it draws more amperage, you cause more issues for everyone else by dropping voltage. They never made sense to me. More than once, we've been in parks where RVs with autoformers ended up smoking the plug at the pedestal because of low voltage in the park. Personally I have several options...3400 Watt inverter/generator, 315 amps of lithium battery or leave. Depends on how hot it is (AC get inverter) how long we want to stay (lithium/solar) or leave.

[RickLight]

I have come to severe distrust of Hughes.

I don't own one, but I closely reviewed their website and marketing materials. They make some deeply flawed statements, both on engineering and about the electrical code. The electrical code has banned them for years for good and sound reasons. It's time that ban was enforced!

[caswelld]

It just is a very very rare thing to happen
2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

Let me tell you how rare it is.

We installed a Progressive EMS on our last two RVs & within the next few years we had 3 incidents where the RV park power was rejected, each would have damaged our RV.

I hope bad RV park power continues to be a rare occurrence for you.

Happy camping,
Dave

[xrated]

Considering the age of many RV parks/campgrounds out there, it is not surprising that folks will encounter low voltage at their campsite. Many of them were built when a "large" camper was 30' long and had a 30A service coming into it. That 30' camper didn't have 3 A/C units, microwaves, fireplaces, large water heaters, and washer/dryers in them. Most of them operated just fine on a 30A 120VAC power supply at the pole. Even the newer campgrounds sometimes will cut costs when they are building them and do just enough to pass electrical inspections and to save cost of installing electrical services that are not taxed when the campground is full. So if you combine all of those previously mentioned factors, plus the popularity of camping now, plus maybe an extended "heat wave" scenario, you can see why folks are now having to deal with low voltage at some campgrounds. And the only safe way to deal with this is to have a device (an EMS) that will take your trailer offline from the dangerously low voltage when it occurs. Your trailer going offline of the electrical grid is an inconvenience for sure......but burning up/destroying the electrical devices in your trailer is an even BIGGER inconvenience.....and certainly a lot more costly for repair/replacement of those devices.

As I stated before, to each their own on your decision to have or not have that protection, just be aware or the possible results and then live with your decision....it's really that simple.

[JKellerJr]

If campgrounds supplied the power they are supposed to then none of this would be on issue, PERIOD. Even EMS would be relegated to surge protection and would be a lot simpler. Instead some have neglected, overbuilt, oversold, etc. and have caused this problem. Autoformers are not the problem, only a protection against neglected/under built systems that are not just an inconvenience but a major issue that costs a lot of money to fix if high current appliances are run at below acceptable voltage.

There are plenty of other ways campgrounds can make sure that everyone has enough power besides upgrading the infrastructure. Change 50 amp sites back to 30, each one would make 70 additional amps available for everyone else. Put in smaller breakers, cut everyone's available power. Eliminate sites, etc. But everyone one of those would require them to be honest about the state of their electrical infrastructure or not be able to charge more for 50 amp sites they can't supply anyway. Can't allow that, nope the SOP is to sell everything and push the problems onto the customers. Ban the autoformer, its bad, it steals power from everyone else. Bullxxxx No matter what the autoformer does/doesn't do it cannot use more power than the the breaker allows, period. So if I an paying for a 30/50 amp service than that is what we are allotted. The autoformer does not allow you to exceed that. All I'm doing is giving up some of my available amps to keep the voltage at an acceptable level. How is it wrong to expect to use the service I paid for. Now If I changed the breaker for more power(or used both the 50/30 AND the 20 in the box which I have seen done quite a bit) that I can see having an issue with.

120 volts is the US STANDARD. Its what should be expected. I have never seen a campground listing stating 20/30/50 amp at 100v available. Just 20/30/50 amp options and you pay more for more available power. If they cant supply that power at the standard 120v (within the acceptable variation of 114 to 126) or at the very least disclose the fact that you are not getting the US standard voltage/power then that is on them, not me. If there is an unexpected issue then I will absolutely do my part. I have a generator and a bunch of lithium so I can pull off the grid to help out if needed.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here, but it is my understanding, for example, that if your running AC at a lower voltage it is pulling more amps than if it was running at normal voltage. Sounds like the same issue to me, other than I'm not burning up my AC to get it.

Can/should a campground be able to ban them, Absolutely! I will gladly bypass mine with 2 conditions. 1, they supply me with the 20/30/50 amp service at 120v expected or they fully disclose what level of power I can expect so I can decide if its acceptable to run my trailer at that level. Otherwise if your not holding you part of the bargain why should we be expected to

[NB Canada]

As I stated before, to each their own on your decision to have or not have that protection, just be aware or the possible results and then live with your decision....it's really that simple.

I am quite sure everyone including the OP feels the protection is important and worth it but when the alternative would be to cancel everything and pack up and leave (which could be hundreds of miles) overriding it is a viable option that I myself would have done
If it shortens the life of something oh well

The A/C unit is the only thing worth worrying about imo


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

[xrated]

If campgrounds supplied the power they are supposed to then none of this would be on issue, PERIOD. Even EMS would be relegated to surge protection and would be a lot simpler. Instead some have neglected, overbuilt, oversold, etc. and have caused this problem. Autoformers are not the problem, only a protection against neglected/under built systems that are not just an inconvenience but a major issue that costs a lot of money to fix if high current appliances are run at below acceptable voltage.

There are plenty of other ways campgrounds can make sure that everyone has enough power besides upgrading the infrastructure. Change 50 amp sites back to 30, each one would make 70 additional amps available for everyone else. Put in smaller breakers, cut everyone's available power. Eliminate sites, etc. But everyone one of those would require them to be honest about the state of their electrical infrastructure or not be able to charge more for 50 amp sites they can't supply anyway. Can't allow that, nope the SOP is to sell everything and push the problems onto the customers. Ban the autoformer, its bad, it steals power from everyone else. Bullxxxx No matter what the autoformer does/doesn't do it cannot use more power than the the breaker allows, period. So if I an paying for a 30/50 amp service than that is what we are allotted. The autoformer does not allow you to exceed that. All I'm doing is giving up some of my available amps to keep the voltage at an acceptable level. How is it wrong to expect to use the service I paid for. Now If I changed the breaker for more power(or used both the 50/30 AND the 20 in the box which I have seen done quite a bit) that I can see having an issue with.

120 volts is the US STANDARD. Its what should be expected. I have never seen a campground listing stating 20/30/50 amp at 100v available. Just 20/30/50 amp options and you pay more for more available power. If they cant supply that power at the standard 120v (within the acceptable variation of 114 to 126) or at the very least disclose the fact that you are not getting the US standard voltage/power then that is on them, not me. If there is an unexpected issue then I will absolutely do my part. I have a generator and a bunch of lithium so I can pull off the grid to help out if needed.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here, but it is my understanding, for example, that if your running AC at a lower voltage it is pulling more amps than if it was running at normal voltage. Sounds like the same issue to me, other than I'm not burning up my AC to get it.

Can/should a campground be able to ban them, Absolutely! I will gladly bypass mine with 2 conditions. 1, they supply me with the 20/30/50 amp service at 120v expected or they fully disclose what level of power I can expect so I can decide if its acceptable to run my trailer at that level. Otherwise if your not holding you part of the bargain why should we be expected to

You are absolutely correct.....lower voltage will result in higher amperage on the device. On things such as electric motors, the windings inside the motor are insulated with a varnish type insulation to keep them from shorting out the windings. And of course the motor is rated to operate at a certain temperature, based on the winding's insulation capabilities. The higher current flowing through the motor windings, if it is high enough, will start overheating the motor and windings and cause the insulation to start breaking down. It's not very likely it will cause the motor death on the first time it happens, but it is something that will never heal or correct itself until finally the motor will fail (windings short out) and let the smoke out. Of course on an A/C unit, those are hermetically sealed units with the motor/compressor all in one container, so it's then time for a new compressor or in most cases a new A/C unit.