Toy hauler heavier in the front when not loaded?

**sdergar** · 08-29-2021, 11:19 AM

Hello

We are currently at the start of looking for a new RV to travel in. We've been looking at the 21G toy hauler. I'm a woodworker and will be doing some woodworking while on the road and hence the reason for the toy hauler. I'll be using the garage as a workshop. I'm not bringing the power tools like a table saw or bandsaw but will be bringing hand held tools such as a track saw, drills, and hand planes etc.

All that to say if you don't load a toy in the garage does the tongue weight increase? We'll be towing less cargo but will more of it be on the front as there is little weight on the back? Does it really matter as when you are bringing the trailer home or taking it for storage it is mostly empty anyway. I can't really say how many pounds of equipment I'll bring but it'll be less than 1000lbs and I would say closer to 750lbs max.

Thanks
Steve

**Second Chance** · 08-29-2021, 12:46 PM

First of all, don't go by the manufacturer's published tongue weights - those are empty/dry. A typical travel trailer will put about 12% of the loaded total weight on the hitch. In other words, if you load the Momentum 21G to full capacity, it would put almost 1,200 lbs. on the tongue/hitch (12% of the 9,995 lb. GVWR). Toy haulers are a bit different, in that they're counting on part of the cargo weight being in the garage. You're probably not going to load the weight in hand tools for woodworking that bikers or off-roaders load for their toys. This means that you're not likely to put 3,500 lbs. of stuff in the trailer. If the garage is on the light side, this will put a higher percentage of the total weight on the tongue/hitch (that's just how toy haulers are designed) - but you'll probably not be at the full 9,995 lb. GVWR, either. You might get some real-world responses from 21G owners to guide you, but I would plan on having a tow vehicle that's capable of at least 1,000 - 1,100 lbs. payload/tongue weight (and a good weight distributing hitch) after you, your girlfriend, the dogs, and a full tank of fuel are on board.

Rob

**TerryH** · 08-29-2021, 01:22 PM

I've seen the 21G's with generator, battery and propane with tongue weights in the 1200-1300 lb range on the Facebook groups. Doubt that your tools in the rear would subtract much of that weight.

**xrated** · 08-29-2021, 01:58 PM

I'll give you a perfect example of how my previous toy hauler was. 2017 Keystone Fuzion Impact 303. GVWR of 13,000 lbs and empty tongue weight of 1340 lbs. When the trailer was empty, the trailer weight was a touch over 9000 lbs, so as you can see, very tongue heavy. Once I brought it home and started adding my stuff to it, loading food/supplies, clothes, pots and pans, etc, etc, and then loading two approx. 400 lbs motorcycles and all the gear/tools I needed for a weekend at the track (My wife and I were Instructors/coaches for a motorcycle trackday organization), fuel in the 30 gallon TH tank, we didn't even have 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue and it was a sway-fest! I ended up removing the one 12V battery and replacing it with two 6v batteries for some extra weight (and longer battery AH time), I added tow 60 lb sandtubes up front, a 35 lb barbell plate, and ran with right at 50 gallons of water in the fresh water tank. After all of that, I finally got the tongue weight up to almost or right at 12% and magically, my sway issues were gone.

It is a coin toss and an adventure in experimentation when you buy a tow behind toy hauler and trying to get the balance between too much tongue weight, not enough tongue weight, and just right tongue weight. I was successful eventually, but I might have spewed a few curse words before I got to that point.

**huntindog** · 08-29-2021, 04:21 PM

I have a friend that had a a wolf creek bumper pull TH. His dry TW was over 1900#!! He had to load toys in it to keep from overloading the hitch. It was such a pain that he dumped it really fast.

**TexasToyTrike** · 09-08-2021, 12:37 AM

I wanted to see if I could jump into this discussion and get your perspectives on a similar struggle I’m having experiencing the trailer fishtailing at 62+mph.
I have a 30G bumper pull toy hauler. I also have a big ProPride hitch and weight distribution system. This is suppose to be the very best (and most expensive) hitch on the market.
Per manufacturer specs I have 12k lbs GVWR, 8.8K lbs UVW, and a 1350 lbs TW. So that should give me 3200 lbs of stuff to load. My toy is a Goldwing trike = 1250 lbs; Onan gen = 200 lbs; 30 gal of gas = 200 lbs; king mattress = 150 lbs; extra tables, extra steps for patio, cooking equip, folding chairs = 500lbs. That should leave me 900-1k lbs for my wife and my clothing and food. I over estimated weight on several of the items above just to be conservation. That all said, I feel confident I’m not over loaded. Although Ive not yet taken it to a set of commercial scales.
Truck (GMC 2500 Denali diesel) sits level, trailer level. Trike fits in nicely but all of that weight is in the garage behind the wheels / axles, so I pack all of our gear in the front bedroom. Still getting sway. It’s not crazy bad, but its noticeable above about 62-63 Mph, or if I hit a big bump.

**NB Canada** · 09-08-2021, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by TexasToyTrike

I wanted to see if I could jump into this discussion and get your perspectives on a similar struggle I’m having experiencing the trailer fishtailing at 62+mph.
I have a 30G bumper pull toy hauler. I also have a big ProPride hitch and weight distribution system. This is suppose to be the very best (and most expensive) hitch on the market.
Per manufacturer specs I have 12k lbs GVWR, 8.8K lbs UVW, and a 1350 lbs TW. So that should give me 3200 lbs of stuff to load. My toy is a Goldwing trike = 1250 lbs; Onan gen = 200 lbs; 30 gal of gas = 200 lbs; king mattress = 150 lbs; extra tables, extra steps for patio, cooking equip, folding chairs = 500lbs. That should leave me 900-1k lbs for my wife and my clothing and food. I over estimated weight on several of the items above just to be conservation. That all said, I feel confident I’m not over loaded. Although Ive not yet taken it to a set of commercial scales.
Truck (GMC 2500 Denali diesel) sits level, trailer level. Trike fits in nicely but all of that weight is in the garage behind the wheels / axles, so I pack all of our gear in the front bedroom. Still getting sway. It’s not crazy bad, but its noticeable above about 62-63 Mph, or if I hit a big bump.

First step is to run it over scales

2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

**TerryH** · 09-08-2021, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by TexasToyTrike

I wanted to see if I could jump into this discussion and get your perspectives on a similar struggle I’m having experiencing the trailer fishtailing at 62+mph.
I have a 30G bumper pull toy hauler. I also have a big ProPride hitch and weight distribution system. This is suppose to be the very best (and most expensive) hitch on the market.
Per manufacturer specs I have 12k lbs GVWR, 8.8K lbs UVW, and a 1350 lbs TW. So that should give me 3200 lbs of stuff to load. My toy is a Goldwing trike = 1250 lbs; Onan gen = 200 lbs; 30 gal of gas = 200 lbs; king mattress = 150 lbs; extra tables, extra steps for patio, cooking equip, folding chairs = 500lbs. That should leave me 900-1k lbs for my wife and my clothing and food. I over estimated weight on several of the items above just to be conservation. That all said, I feel confident I’m not over loaded. Although Ive not yet taken it to a set of commercial scales.
Truck (GMC 2500 Denali diesel) sits level, trailer level. Trike fits in nicely but all of that weight is in the garage behind the wheels / axles, so I pack all of our gear in the front bedroom. Still getting sway. It’s not crazy bad, but its noticeable above about 62-63 Mph, or if I hit a big bump.

Agree with NB. You need to scale it. You could also purchase a Sherline TW gauge to find out where you are. The Pro Pride is a great hitch but only rated for 1400lbs of TW. The 1350lb TW is for an "average build" without propane, battery and so on so you are likely well over the rating for the PP hitch. You should have a weight sheet in the paperwork that came with the trailer that gives you the actual dry TW of your particular trailer. It's all conjecture without actual numbers.

**CX500T** · 09-08-2021, 12:32 PM

Toy Haulers do tend to have relatively heavy pin/tounge weight (doesn't matter TT or FW) so that when all the heavy things get put in the garage aft of the axles, you still have enough tounge/pin weight.

Note, this is for most "conventional" toy haulers with the garage in the rear. Different for the few "forward garage" TTs I've seen.

**TexasToyTrike** · 09-08-2021, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by TerryH

Agree with NB. You need to scale it. You could also purchase a Sherline TW gauge to find out where you are. The Pro Pride is a great hitch but only rated for 1400lbs of TW. The 1350lb TW is for an "average build" without propane, battery and so on so you are likely well over the rating for the PP hitch. You should have a weight sheet in the paperwork that came with the trailer that gives you the actual dry TW of your particular trailer. It's all conjecture without actual numbers.

All good advice. Just ordered the Shurline LM-5000 (why not, it was the same price as the 2000). Headed to the CAT scales as soon as I can. I downloaded their mobile app and you don’t even have to get out of the truck to get weighed and get a report.
Interesting point about the Propride limit of 1400lbs. I’ve never had a trailer with this much TW so didn’t think about the PP limit. The 1350 TW I mentioned previously is the manufacturers official dry / factory TW. I also just ordered a Airlift set of bags and new Blistein shocks.
1 week for delivery.
I’m still confident I won’t be over on GVWR nor TW - but as you all noted, I won’t know until I scale.
Here’s a pic of the set up.