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Thread: Refrigerator - Norcold 1210
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09-25-2021, 10:09 PM #11
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I have to agree with gondrej.
We also had a 320MKS, and nothing, and I mean nothing but fridge issues!
We added the fans as you’ve stated and still issues. The only way we could keep the fridge cold was to ensure we never parked it where the back end of the trailer faced the sun…ever!
Any fridge should be expected to work regardless of which way your parked. As if we have the ability to tell that to any RV parks we stay in!
If a replacement fridge costs in excess of 3k, then it should work, without me having to make modifications to it on my own dime, regardless of the cost!
And shame on Grand Design for not demanding better from their suppliers!
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09-26-2021, 06:51 AM #12
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We didn't go to this extreme, but we replaced the thermostat on the outside above the fins with a 85 degree one, installed fans inside the fridge and installed fans on the Access cover, they blow in and up towards the fins. My fridge doesn't go over 34 unless my child keeps the door open extended amount of time. The factory fans stay on more now with the new thermostat and they are a bit loud . Another thing to take into account is the defrost mode that absorption refrigerators have. If you don't turn on your refrigerator at the right time. The fridge will do into defrost in the middle of the day when it's the hottest and will heat up and take longer to cool down. I believe this is one of the more important things to know. This information is in the manual. Mine will go into defrost after 60 hours then every 48 after that.
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09-26-2021, 08:18 AM #13
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Hi, we have a 320MKS with the Norcild 1210 as well. The issue with the refer is not Grand Designs fault. It is a supply issue. If anything, blame Norcold.
As an engineer, I really want to understand the problem before I try to "fix" it. With this refer, part of the issue is airflow across the fins at the top of the refer, in the back. The second part of the issue is the lack of airflow inside the refer. The third part is the "one-size-fits-all" door. The final part of the issue is it is an ammonia based cooler, vs. a compressor and R-234 based cooler.
The lack of airflow across the fins in back means the liquid to air cooling is not radiating enough of the heat from the ammonia solution inside the coils. This generally is resolved by adding exhaust fans, that are temperature controlled, to the to of the refer cabinet and pointing out, to draw air across the fins. This helps to continue to move "cooler" air across the fins. Yes, Grand Design did add two fans below the fins, at the midpoint on the refer, but (at least in my case) they don't produce enough CFM at the fins to make a difference in temperatures over 85°-90° F. I was considering manufacturing a baffle to direct the air flow more efficiently, but I got lazy.
As to the lack of air flow in the refrigerator, that is resolved by a couple of fans, that either sit on the shelf, or are attached to the fins inside the refrigerator. I purchased the kit from RV Cooling Warehouse and it works well. The fans keep the air circulating through the refrigerator, keeping a more ever temperature throughout it. With any upright refrigerator, you have the classic issue of cold air dropping and warm air rising, then when the door is opened, the cold air inside the refrigerator flows out the bottom, drawing warmer air inside. On a gas absorption unit, this has the cooling unit working harder to keep the refrigerator cooler.
The issue with the door is that flap on the left door drags at the bottom and sometimes (okay most of the time) it doesn't allow the right door to seal against it. To resolve this issue, I removed the door, added washers, one at a time, until the flap no longer dragged against the bottom. Some people have started they just pull on the flap when the close the door to make sure it's in the correct position. I'm absent minded and kept forgetting to do this, so the washers fixed this issue. Oh, you can't tell by looking at it, so, take a dollar bill, or a strip of paper (that is not folded), close the left door as you normally would, then hold the dollar bill across the flap and close the right door. You shouldn't be able to move the bill up and down. If you can, it's not sealing. This is a big drawback on the double door refrigerators. Some residential refrigerators suffer from this as well, it's just the R-234 coolant does a much better job at keeping the temperature down, it just means it runs most of the time.
The final piece is the Norcold 1210 is a gas absorption unit. In theory, it works like a conventional cooler, except a conventional cooler uses a compressor to move the coolant through the system. With a gas absorption cooler, the ammonia is in a liquid state in the reservoir. The propane or electric heater heats the ammonia to it's gassified state. The ammonia gas the rises through the tubes, pulling additional heat from the transfer plates. Once it reaches the top, the ammonia gas then enters the radiator to cool. As it could, it turns to it's liquid form and returns to the reservoir. For the most part, this is an efficient system, in external temperatures less than 85° F. It is by no means better than, it even close to equal, a conventional R-234, compressor based system.
In conclusion, there are several options you have to resolve the issues with the Norcold 1210.
1. Make the modifications as I have mentioned above.
2. Replace the gas absorption unit with a compressor unit. There is an Amish company (I don't remember where but you can find them by googling it) that sells a direct replacement compressor unit that you would replace the gas absorption unit with. (Something we are looking at.)
3. Remove the drawer underneath the refer, remove the refer, remove the shelf the refer sits on, and install an inverter and a residential refer. (I seriously record explore this option, but in the end it was too big of a pain to do it.)
4. Replace the refer with the new 12VDC compressor refers that RecPro sells (there is another manufacturer, but I don't remember the name right now.)
You have options, just remember that an RV is not a sticks-n-bricks house. You will have issues with your house on wheels. That's not a "you might have issues" that's a "you will have issues". Hopefully most are small and easily fixable.
Again, in this case, you can read about all the people having issues with the Coleman refers, and most of those are the smaller refers.
In my opinion, if you wanted an RV that doesn't "have issues" (even though they do), you really need to look at something like a DRV, or a fully custom RV. Yes, the cheapest DRV is over $200K to start, is big and heavy, but they are semi-custom RVs. In the world of COVID-19 manufacturing, you really do get what you pay for, and $50K-$100K is no longer the above average sweet spot. It is the lower end of average. It really has to do with supply chain issues and a lack of highly trained personnel. A manufacturer can't do anything much about the lack of components that are out there to fulfill the orders they have.
However, until recently, the Norcold 1210 was the largest gas absorption refrigerator on the market. Yes in my opinion, it's a POS, but it's what we have.
Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkMark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
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09-26-2021, 08:19 AM #14
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On my Dometic refrigerator it is inside a black plastic control box located behind the lower exterior vent cover. It to is a mini glass fuse not a standard size glass fuse.
I prefer the Bussman brand of fuses over the others.
https://www.acehardware.com/departme...B&gclsrc=aw.dsLast edited by IBEW Sparky; 09-26-2021 at 08:32 AM.
Bill & Colleen ~ Schwenksville, Pa
2019 Reflection 337RLS
2006 GMC Sierra 3500 8.1L V-8
Firestone Ride-Rite Air Bags
Front Stabilizer Bar
Rear Anti Sway Bar
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09-26-2021, 01:47 PM #15
Moonshadow, as a fellow engineer, I agree with your conclusions with one caveat, I feel GD is responsible for the installation. I have seen installations that span from excellent to poor from the same company, GD. It is very important to ensure zero clearance on the top, bottom and sides as well as the correct distance from the back of the unit to the inside of the outer wall. The fans used at best are anemic, I think they move like 25 or 30 cfm best case. I added two 200 mm fans to the top that move approx 130 cfm each at 800 rpm, so the are quiet and only pill 1/4 amp. I also augmented the set temps with a digital controller and lowered the on temp to 90deg f. Stock is 145 I believe. I do feel GD shares responsibility as they control the install and those elements. I do feel that if we spend 3k on one of these, the design should be more “robust”.
2019 GMC 3500 SRW Sierra Denali Duramax
2020 Reflection 315RLTS
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09-26-2021, 01:58 PM #16
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Mark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
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09-26-2021, 02:45 PM #17
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09-27-2021, 10:35 AM #18
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2019 320MKS with Dometic refrigerator
We had a 2019 320MKS with Dometic fridge. It worked just fine while setting still and level whether it was on electric or propane. But traveling, it would ruin food because it wouldn't cool. I checked frequently at stops to make sure the flame was on. Inside temps would sometimes be in the 50s when we reached our destination. We fought this thing and tried everything for 3 years and 30,000 RV miles. My conclusion after all this time was that the ammonia system had to be perfectly level to work and it couldn't do that bumping down the road. The fact that the fridge is in the very back wall of the 320MKS results in a lot more turbulence inside the fridge than if it were over the wheels. It is like a see-saw. If the truck goes down in a dip in the road, the back of the RV goes up, then goes down when it hits the dip. All the motion seems to be multiplied at the back of the RV. We couldn't store anything in the fridge door inside shelves because the bouncing broke off the shelf brackets. All the stuff in the fridge was tossed and shelves would fall. We cut pool noodles to wedge between items for stability. We finally traded the MKS for a 2022 337RLS that has a Norcold mounted over the wheels. We are in a totally different world now that the wife is happy!!
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10-07-2021, 06:40 AM #19
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Just to follow up and close the loop… I got a check this week from Grand Design for the replacement fan. I am very happy that they made good on their word.
It’s still a suboptimal design, but it works, and I understand the operation way better than I did before. I’ll probably put individual fuses to each fan, perhaps with an indicator light that illuminates when the fuse is blown. Still bugs me that a single fan failure can blow a fuse on the main board of the fridge and render the fridge inop. I don’t think the main board of the fridge was originally designed to support the draw of one, let alone two dc powered fans.
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10-07-2021, 06:56 AM #20
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@SabreDriver
Can you please share a link or specific information to which fan you purchased on Amazon? There are too many to choose from.
Does anyone know if there are better fans that will work and fit in the same spot?
I like the idea of separate fused wires run to each fan. I wonder if something like this would fit in the outside refrigerator compartment.
6-Way Fuse Block with Ground, 6 Circuit ATC/ATO Fuse Box Holder with Negative Bus, Protection Cover & LED Light Indication, Bolt Terminals, 70 pcs Stick Label, for Auto Marine, Boat, with 12 pcs Fuse https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X32KGF8...ing=UTF8&psc=1Last edited by IBEW Sparky; 10-07-2021 at 07:04 AM.
Bill & Colleen ~ Schwenksville, Pa
2019 Reflection 337RLS
2006 GMC Sierra 3500 8.1L V-8
Firestone Ride-Rite Air Bags
Front Stabilizer Bar
Rear Anti Sway Bar
Bedroom Sconce Light
Today, 05:09 PM in Electrical System and Wiring