There's a Leak Somewhere

[Trainman327]

@Trainman327

Can you post any pictures of the floor in that area?

Here is a picture of where the soft spot is. It is within the outlined area. The arrows point to the two worst spots, I'm sure due to weight sitting on them. One is the front foot of the sofa the other is the slide roller. It does extent a little under the cabinet in the corner.




I'd like to remove the cabinet and see if I can roll the vinyl back to see the underneath. However, I don't know how to get under the slide or to the roller.

[IBEW Sparky]

@Trainman327

Unfortunately that's not going to be an easy repair without removing the slideout. My buddy has a 2018 337RLS and had a rip in the floor in front of the pantry cabinet in that slide out. Under warranty they removed all of the trim on the slideout and extended it out past the sidewall to replace his flooring. I would think that if you got your RV nice and level and built a temporary platform that you could do the same thing, extended the slide out past the edge of the wall. You would need to also remove the little corner cabinet (possibly both of them) and any floor/wall trim. These floors are not glued down but usually extend under the exterior walls requiring you to cut the vinyl flooring around the edges... there should be some type of trim under the slideout that keeps that section down. You will need to fold back the flooring as far as possible to access the subfloor to make repairs. It may even require disconnecting & removal of the island, a job in itself... make sure to mark the all four corners where the island sits with painters tape so you get it put back exactly where it was. An inch or two the wrong way could result in one of your slides hitting the island when retracted back inside. Care must also be taken NOT to crease the flooring where it gets folded t8o. It's a lot of work but can be done and you may need a small amount of 1/2" corner round moulding to put along the wall between the corner cabinet and the slideout. On my buddies RV they pulled out both slides, removed the island, the hutch, and the sofa & both corner cabinets and put a whole new floor down on the lower level. His ripped because prior to 2019 they used different rollers and glides on the slideout and not enough of them to carry the weight of everything in the slideout. If you go this route to make these repairs I would highly suggest upgrading and increasing the number of rollers and glides on the kitchen slideout. Let us know how you make out and take plenty of pictures.

[Trainman327]

Before this first RV purchase. I have owned several boats. This floor replacement project has many similarities, but some key differences as well. It doesn't scare me, but I also don't want to jump into it until I'm certain I have the leak fixed. I'm not entirely sure the wood is dry yet. I don't think it's an issue leaving it for a while. I have a piece of 1/2" plywood under the sofa to support it across the soft spot. We don't sit on it often anyway.

Lowering the bottom cover, I can see there is another black water protective cover under the floor itself. I also noticed, while accessing behind the water control panel. to clean the water filter on the pump, that the vinyl flooring looks like it was put down after the floor wood was installed and before any other stuff was put on top of it. Your statement about it being under the side walls seam accurate.

If I have to move the slide out enough to access the area, I can say that I will likely pull it all the way out and replace the seals while I'm at it.

[IBEW Sparky]

@Trainman327

Good idea looking into the seals... I think I would only replace any that were torn or deformed. Do keep in mind the rollers on that slideout. I should have mentioned in my buddies situation that the dealership didn't uprade or increase the number of rollers when they replaced his flooring and you can guess what happened... It tore the floor again on their very next trip! Only after the second repair was done were more rollers added.

[dpisano]

Thank you very much for the reply.

Unfortunately, no mobile technician will look at the trailer prior to winterization. The two RV places near me couldn't even do my safety inspection until mid November, let alone a repair. I had to have my regular auto repair shop do the inspection. I will have to resolve this issue myself. I believe Rob's reply above gives me more to consider.

This soft spot is near no windows and there is no other damage or decolorization anywhere in the surround area. It's localized directly under the rear corner of the slide. The water pooled around the foot of the sofa right by this location. I believe this was due to the slight bow the weight of the sofa puts on the floor and with the water sitting in that spot it created a depression for the water to congregate and pool. That may be to my advantage. The soft spot on the floor in localized to a 8" wide by 14" long area, centered on that sofa foot.

It's unfortunate that the RV places are so booked up. My Mother-in-law has a motorhome with a malfunctioning slide and it has been sitting in the shop for 2 months waiting for the repair. I don't know if it's a parts issue or just a backup in repairs scheduled, but they are frustrated as heck that winter is coming and they can't hit the road to go south.

Unless I am misreading your message, we are having the same problem and there is plenty of posts on forums like this about the "leaking" Schwintek slides. We found a soft spot in-front of the hutch, directly to the right, of the "right" corner of the slide while facing it. Turns out, these slides are notorious for leaking from the "tracks" on the side when closed. in-fact, we find it only leaks when the slide is "closed", not open and level. I still haven't fixed it, but I did find one post on one of these forums where a gentlemen posted a series of pictures and images of how he removed the track, caulked or sealed it to stop the leaks when closed.

I see everyone referencing bulb seals, but I don't think the 50 or 60 posts I read about these leaks and "soft-spots" had anything to do with the bulb seals. To me, after investigating further, clearly seems as though water is collecting behing or on-top of the track and finding its way down the front of the slide onto the kitchen floor.

Just an FYI. I haven't fixed mine yet, but I do remember the post was pretty detailed. I will re-post it if I find it again.

[Teledoc]

New owner of a used 2017 Reflection 337 RLS and new to the world of RVing.

I took possession of this camper from a family member. While giving it a good cleaning and inspection I discovered it has a soft spot on the floor of the rear driver’s side. I’ve done some searching on the net and this forum and don't think I found anything helpful. As a newbie to the RV world, maybe I just don’t know the right terms to search for or didn't realize I did see the answer to my problem.

This is where I think the problem is coming from. The rear side slide out seal on the big kitchen/entertainment center slide out is the only one on the camper that’s rolled in. I have manually flipped it to face out, like all the others, but it still rolls back in when the slide out is moved in and back out.

Also, all the top corners, of all three side outs, look like the top seal is glued to the side seal in each corner, except the one mentioned above.

I believe this is where the leak is coming from. The seal looks like it’s in good shape, the rubber feels like all the others. It has no cuts, rough surfaces or discolored areas. Nor does the sidewall of the slide out. However, if it has sat rolled in for too long a time, maybe it just won’t sit properly or tight enough to seal properly.

The roof looks to be in good shape, there is no water damage on the ceilings, walls or cabinets. Only this floor area. it's stored with the slides in and it has never been covered or stored indoors.

When we looked at it the first time, before taking possession, we did notice that the slides may not have been completely retracted. I though the bottom of the slides, especially the big one, looked like it was sticking out farther than it should on the bottom. However, in searching that issue on the net, I found many instances of this being discussed and that it's common. But when we closed it up to take it for a road test, they were all in nice and tight.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.

Once I solve the leaking problem, then I’ll have to figure out how to replace the soft spot on the floor.

I see two issues, both not yet defined:
1) Is there an active leak still, if any? You already checked in the rain. May be an old issue, if leaking was cause of the soft floor area to begin with.
2) Is the floor soft spot caused by water damage, and is it still wet?
I have never done this, but perhaps it would easier to check the underlayment from below by dropping the plastic underside that encloses the underbelly? Otherwise will need the more tricky peeling back the vinyl flooring as already brought up.
If dry, then maybe you can repair or at least reinforce from below.
Also consider posting this on the Reflection 337 Facebook owners page [link removed] (about 3500 members) to see if anyone has had something similar and their outcome.

Carl

[Trainman327]

I see two issues, both not yet defined:
1) Is there an active leak still, if any? You already checked in the rain. May be an old issue, if leaking was cause of the soft floor area to begin with.
2) Is the floor soft spot caused by water damage, and is it still wet?
I have never done this, but perhaps it would easier to check the underlayment from below by dropping the plastic underside that encloses the underbelly? Otherwise will need the more tricky peeling back the vinyl flooring as already brought up.
If dry, then maybe you can repair or at least reinforce from below.
Also consider posting this on the Reflection 337 Facebook owners page [link removed] (about 3500 members) to see if anyone has had something similar and their outcome.

Carl

This has been my most recent consideration. Since the soft spot seams to still be slowly migrating, I'm not sure it has dried. After all, the plywood is sandwiched between the vinyl on top and a black barrier underneath. I can't see how it can dry out. Since there is a no way for air to get in. This trailer also has a plastic corrugated cover on the very bottom of the frame. Sealing the underneath from air flow further. On boats, I would have placed a heater in the wet area. I think I will do the same here.

I never considered cutting away the barrier under the wood or the possibility of doing a repair from underneath. I guess it can't be any worse than letting the issue continue unchecked. Removing the lower barrier will require the removal of the rear tow hitch, but I don't see me using that for anything. I can leave that off for a while. I won't be moving the trailer again until spring. If that hitch is used for stability it shouldn't be an issue if I'm not taking it on the road.

The previous owner indicated they found a puddle of water in the area of the soft spot. I do believe the issue has been caused by: neglect in cleaning the tops of the slides before brining them in, not keeping the gutters clean & clear, not keeping the seals maintained and not making sure the slides were completely retracted. We have seen not a single drop of water inside the trailer since we took possession.

[Trainman327]

Unless I am misreading your message, we are having the same problem and there is plenty of posts on forums like this about the "leaking" Schwintek slides. We found a soft spot in-front of the hutch, directly to the right, of the "right" corner of the slide while facing it. Turns out, these slides are notorious for leaking from the "tracks" on the side when closed. in-fact, we find it only leaks when the slide is "closed", not open and level. I still haven't fixed it, but I did find one post on one of these forums where a gentlemen posted a series of pictures and images of how he removed the track, caulked or sealed it to stop the leaks when closed.

I see everyone referencing bulb seals, but I don't think the 50 or 60 posts I read about these leaks and "soft-spots" had anything to do with the bulb seals. To me, after investigating further, clearly seems as though water is collecting behing or on-top of the track and finding its way down the front of the slide onto the kitchen floor.

Just an FYI. I haven't fixed mine yet, but I do remember the post was pretty detailed. I will re-post it if I find it again.

You have given me some additional words to use in my searches. Thank you, this has helped a lot. As I expected, my searches were not specific enough to get to the topics I needed.

[DECelt]

Lots of time looking at this today, in the rain, with a hose and with high powered lights at night. There was no water infiltration or light shining through the seals. Now that I understand the sealing system, I think this damage is the result of the slide not being fully retracted or some of the tree detritus I cleaned off the top of the slides prevented a good seal. There were leaves, pine needles and some tiny sticks on the tops of the slides, when I opened it up and started cleaning it off.

The property this is stored on is adjacent to forested wildlife land on three sides. It's also only three miles, as the crow flies, from the beach in Delaware. Tall trees, mostly pines, are right up to the property line. There are a few oak trees as well. Although non are over the camper, I'll be darned if I don't hear acorns hit the thing on a windy day. Being near the beach it was used occasionally for long weekends, by the previous owners. If the crap that falls on the slides isn't cleaned off before they are retracted, I can easily see how the seals would not do their job.

Now to figure out how to repair the soft spot on the floor.

One of the first places to check for any water infiltration is the roof. Obviously, there should not be any knicks or gouges in the fabric covering the roof, but a quick check of the sealant often gives new RVers a false sense that everything is okay. The sealant normally used on RV roofs is a self-leveling sealant often referred to by a brand name...Dicor. When it is new, it is soft and flexible.

After a couple of years, it begins to harden and form fissures. My rule of thumb is that it can look pretty good to the eye, but if it is rock hard...it's time to change it out before you get leaks. Even if you have found the source of your leak, I would spend some time on the roof! Good luck!

[Trainman327]

@Trainman327

Can you post any pictures of the floor in that area?

We went back down to the camper this weekend to address the soft spot and noticed it had migrated further down in front of the slide. Upon accessing under the soft spot we noticed that the unknow issue was that the fiberglass insulation was soaked. This water was further melting the OSB from beneath.

We accessed the area from the top and found a real mess. We removed all the soft wood that was easy by hand. Then cut back further with a razor. Then expanded it to strategic places by cutting into good wood. We removed insulation until we hit dry material. Then turned the heat on at 80 degrees and had fans blowing down into the sub floor to dry everything out.

We did have a very heavy rain while we were there. Not a drop of water came into the camper. However, the slides were out. We left it for the next two weeks with the slides out.

The wood under that area of the slide and the rear side wall will be removed before replacement, but I didn’t have the proper tools with me to do that on this trip

Attached are some pictures.