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  1. #1
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    NHTSA opens probe on RAM CP4s

    At least one curious statement in this article.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ll/8505266002/

    This is one:
    "It says that in November 2019, Fiat Chrysler (now Stellantis), maker of the trucks, issued a warranty bulletin to dealers telling them to collect fuel pumps on the trucks."

    They can have mine

    The other is that why only RAM? Ford still uses the CP4 and GM used it for years.
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  2. #2
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg617 View Post
    At least one curious statement in this article.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ll/8505266002/

    This is one:
    "It says that in November 2019, Fiat Chrysler (now Stellantis), maker of the trucks, issued a warranty bulletin to dealers telling them to collect fuel pumps on the trucks."

    They can have mine

    The other is that why only RAM? Ford still uses the CP4 and GM used it for years.
    And used beyond the Big 3 too. NHTSA is investigating individually. It is not unusual at all for parts to be collected when there could be recourse against a manufacturer. Think about it from Cummins history and the water pumps.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
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  3. #3
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    @geotex1 - why don't they go for the root cause and investigate Bosch?

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
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  4. #4
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    @geotex1 - why don't they go for the root cause and investigate Bosch?

    Rob
    My understanding is that Bosch and Ford designed the CP4 architecture for the EMEA market. The automotive engineers then blindly specified the CP4 architecture for everywhere, BUT it is not designed for North American diesel fuel... In North America, our diesel is low sulfur and different all the back to feed stock being sweet or sour crude... I make many asphaltic emulsions, and my formulation for North America is totally different than Europe or South America and I cannot even make it anywhere in Indonesia or Australia... One size cannot fit all!
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
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  5. #5
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    My understanding is that Bosch and Ford designed the CP4 architecture for the EMEA market. The automotive engineers then blindly specified the CP4 architecture for everywhere, BUT it is not designed for North American diesel fuel... In North America, our diesel is low sulfur and different all the back to feed stock being sweet or sour crude... I make many asphaltic emulsions, and my formulation for North America is totally different than Europe or South America and I cannot even make it anywhere in Indonesia or Australia... One size cannot fit all!
    So, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, this is why one of the best things we can do is increase the fuel lubricity by adding something like Diesel Kleen to every tank (though there seems to be a nation-wide shortage of that, now, too!) - correct?

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
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  6. #6
    Rolling Along huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    So, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, this is why one of the best things we can do is increase the fuel lubricity by adding something like Diesel Kleen to every tank (though there seems to be a nation-wide shortage of that, now, too!) - correct?

    Rob
    The Pump has other problems as well. There is no mechanisim to keep the cam follower (roller on the pistons) from rotating in the bore, with the roller ending up 90 degrees out from where it should be on the cam. When that happens, it destroys itself sending shrapnel thru the entire fuel system. Adding lubrication does little to nothing for that issue.
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  7. #7
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    A couple of good reads on what exactly takes place. The first (page 2-3) describes the condition that @huntindog mentions above with a very good picture of the resulting wear. The second gives a broader description (along with a sales plug) but some decent advice on lengthening the lifespan if that is possible.

    https://www.matec-conferences.org/ar...2017_00020.pdf

    https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/what-is-cp4-failure
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO
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  8. #8
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    So, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, this is why one of the best things we can do is increase the fuel lubricity by adding something like Diesel Kleen to every tank (though there seems to be a nation-wide shortage of that, now, too!) - correct?

    Rob
    Yes, and do everything in your ability to keep water from getting into the pump or any air. Either will take out a CP4 rapidly... What boggles me is how long makers continued to produce with it given the growing number of failures... The automotive industry is usually the fastest industry to pivot when it's losing profits due to warranty repairs - that industry tracks costs of component failures like no other! As for supply, wonder if their Texas facility suffered weather-related damage earlier this year or if they're having trouble sourcing some of the detergents (low cost stuff comes from overseas).
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  9. #9
    Big Traveler Calbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    Yes, and do everything in your ability to keep water from getting into the pump or any air. Either will take out a CP4 rapidly... What boggles me is how long makers continued to produce with it given the growing number of failures... The automotive industry is usually the fastest industry to pivot when it's losing profits due to warranty repairs - that industry tracks costs of component failures like no other! As for supply, wonder if their Texas facility suffered weather-related damage earlier this year or if they're having trouble sourcing some of the detergents (low cost stuff comes from overseas).
    RAM changed back to a modified CP3 starting in 2021 Ram HD trucks so they did move quickly once they realized the warranty issues. The big question here for Ram is why even use it in the first place with all of the problems Ford and GM have/had. I found out after I bought my 3500. Not sure if I would have bought it if I had known. Love the truck though just hoping I am lucky and it doesn't grenade on me, especially at a really bad time like towing.

    Rob
    Rob & Barb
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calbar View Post
    I found out after I bought my 3500. Not sure if I would have bought it if I had known.

    Rob
    In retrospect, couldn't find any F-350 or 3500 SRWs or DRWs anywhere near me so when I saw the 2020, I jumped. Like you, not sure I would have purchased it had I known. But I am keeping all of my fuel receipts. It's not fun - lost my VP44 in an instant just after returning from Florida with a horse trailer behind. Luckily a short distance from home and actual room to pull off the highway and not block a side road.

    Got to love this quote from Diesel Power Products:
    "From there, you’re left with two options if you’re driving a 2019 or 2020 Ram and don’t want to tempt fate: change the pump or change the truck."
    Last edited by ajg617; 10-18-2021 at 06:30 PM.
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO
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