Is Dually a must for Solitude 5th wheel

[BobKilmer]

Don’t overload the capacity of your tire/wheel combo or the manufacturer axle rating. Drive within your ability and comfort zone and you’ll be fine.
The argument over truck manufacturers load ratings is 100 percent accurate if you are towing commercially, meaning your truck is over 10,001 lbs and you are getting paid by someone to move whatever product. Recreational vehicles are private, not commercial and are not subject to FMCSA regulation unless you are a transporter.
GVWR is an arbitrary number created for the commercial market. Also helps sell higher class trucks f350 as an upgrade from an f250 and so on.
Hard to dispute a dually is better than an srw. They are more stable and capable, no arguing that. Also can’t say you can tow an 18k fifth wheel with an f150, that would be stupid all around. Where the argument gets interesting is when people claim if you are 10 pounds over GVWR then you are unsafe and reckless is also unreasonable. You would be considered over weight if you were towing commercially but you are far from being unsafe or dangerous. For instance a semi rated at 80k carrying 90k is legally overweight, unless they have an overweight permit. Having paid an extra fee with a piece of paper in hand you are no longer overweight or unsafe without having to do any other modifications to the vehicle to support the extra 10k.


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GVWR is not an arbitrary number. It is computed based on the criteria in SAE 2807. There are defined conditions that are used to set the GVWR limit, so I don't see why anyone would say it is arbitrary.

I don't think anyone says being 10 pounds over a limit is unsafe or dangerous. But somewhere there has to be a line that determines what is unsafe and dangerous and that is why SAE 2807 exists. If 10 pounds is OK, then why not 20? If 20 is ok, why not 30? Why not 300? Or 3,000? The GVWR limit is there for a reason. People may feel comfortable being over it, but doing so invites potential legal consequences I would prefer to avoid.

[CX500T]

Well stated. All I hear about from folks on the diesel forums is how they'd just hate to drive one as a daily truck. It's not really that bad. I've done it since 1999. Maybe takes a pull up or two in tight parking but it's not like driving a school bus like some think. Even with a 22" frame extension and putting a long bed on my mega cab 3500...it's not that bad.

Also depends on where you go as a daily driver..

I have to drive into NYC to either JFK, LGA or EWR airports 3-4 times a month (I fly 3-4 trips a month for the airline). I can park my Super Cab Short Bed SRW most anywhere a minivan can fit.

Crew Cab Long Bed DRW? No effing way. I don't fit in any spaces in the employee lot, I need 4 spaces for it which good luck finding 4 spaces in a square open.

If you only ever go to mall, Walmart, Lowes, etc and normal non airport parking lots you're probably OK but you may have to park way far away. If I'm on call and hanging out at my crashpad? If I can find parking for a DRW within 4 blocks I'd be doing OK, and I'd likely have damage to the fender flares because New Yorkers just don't care.

[BobKilmer]

That is stated about as well as I have ever seen it put. I guess I'd add one minor tweak: ...it's just impossible to intelligently argue ...

I will take that challenge. The travel trailer at this link has a dry weight of 1,418 pounds. My SRW F-350 can bumper tow 10 times that weight. With 13,500 pounds of towing margin do you think I am better off getting a dually? Seems like a stretch to me.

https://rv.campingworld.com/rvdetail...0k-HHO2113817P

It is hard to argue that when you have more than 10x the required towing capacity adding even more margin and capability really makes a difference. The question then becomes where do you draw the line? And that is why SAE 2807 was created. It creates the line at GVWR.

I expect to receive feedback that I am ignoring the rear tire failure scenario. To counter that, I will provide my real world experience with a tire blowout last month. I had to tow a utility trailer with a 6,500 pound tractor in a driving rain. Coming around a blind corner I encountered a rockslide with no time to stop. This resulted in damage to my front right tire that very quickly went flat. When I got out to look at the tire I could see a slice in the tire sidewall. Two things I learned from the accident:
1) Even with the sidewall sliced open I had almost two minutes to find a safe place to park before the TPMS showed zero pressure.
2) I hit the hazard with my front tire, not the rear, where a dually would have done no good.
So having more margin or a second set of rear tires may make the driver feel better about towing. However, I don't think it makes a statistically significant difference in either towing performance or safety as long as you stay within the applicable limits.

[BobKilmer]

Also depends on where you go as a daily driver..

I have to drive into NYC to either JFK, LGA or EWR airports 3-4 times a month (I fly 3-4 trips a month for the airline). I can park my Super Cab Short Bed SRW most anywhere a minivan can fit.

Crew Cab Long Bed DRW? No effing way. I don't fit in any spaces in the employee lot, I need 4 spaces for it which good luck finding 4 spaces in a square open.

If you only ever go to mall, Walmart, Lowes, etc and normal non airport parking lots you're probably OK but you may have to park way far away. If I'm on call and hanging out at my crashpad? If I can find parking for a DRW within 4 blocks I'd be doing OK, and I'd likely have damage to the fender flares because New Yorkers just don't care.

I agree! I would also add it depends on where you use the truck and RV combo. I bought a fifth wheel so I could disconnect the truck and use it for sightseeing. I am currently spending two weeks in Key West with narrow streets and narrower parking spots. A DRW unit would have just made everything more stressful.

[CX500T]

I'm lucky that I can choose. I have a 250 that can pull my 397. I have a 450 showing up in a couple weeks that is better, but yes parking issues.

250 I have to watch weight forward of the axles. 450, fill the water tanks and still weight to spare.

Have held off on installing my washer and dryer up front for that reason.

That said I went on a two week 2000 mile trip in mountains for some of it with the 250 and no problem.

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[brandtb1919]

I will take that challenge. The travel trailer at this link has a dry weight of 1,418 pounds. My SRW F-350 can bumper tow 10 times that weight. With 13,500 pounds of towing margin do you think I am better off getting a dually? Seems like a stretch to me.

https://rv.campingworld.com/rvdetail...0k-HHO2113817P

It is hard to argue that when you have more than 10x the required towing capacity adding even more margin and capability really makes a difference. The question then becomes where do you draw the line? And that is why SAE 2807 was created. It creates the line at GVWR.

I expect to receive feedback that I am ignoring the rear tire failure scenario. To counter that, I will provide my real world experience with a tire blowout last month. I had to tow a utility trailer with a 6,500 pound tractor in a driving rain. Coming around a blind corner I encountered a rockslide with no time to stop. This resulted in damage to my front right tire that very quickly went flat. When I got out to look at the tire I could see a slice in the tire sidewall. Two things I learned from the accident:
1) Even with the sidewall sliced open I had almost two minutes to find a safe place to park before the TPMS showed zero pressure.
2) I hit the hazard with my front tire, not the rear, where a dually would have done no good.
So having more margin or a second set of rear tires may make the driver feel better about towing. However, I don't think it makes a statistically significant difference in either towing performance or safety as long as you stay within the applicable limits.

Respectfully, I have a problem with this argument. The context of this discussion was not if more margin was needed when there was 10X already, it was that if someone is pushing the limits of their TV already, can it really be argued that adding margin is a bad thing? I'm pushing my TV to the max (according to the GVWR) and was willing to do it indefinitely, until I had an opportunity to upgrade. I'll never have to question it again. As it has been said before, it's a personal choice that depends on a variety of factors such as YOUR comfort level and experience with the setup.

More is not always better, unless you don't have enough now, or we would all have HDTs!

Brian

[BobKilmer]

Respectfully, I have a problem with this argument. The context of this discussion was not if more margin was needed when there was 10X already, it was that if someone is pushing the limits of their TV already, can it really be argued that adding margin is a bad thing? I'm pushing my TV to the max (according to the GVWR) and was willing to do it indefinitely, until I had an opportunity to upgrade. I'll never have to question it again. As it has been said before, it's a personal choice that depends on a variety of factors such as YOUR comfort level and experience with the setup.

More is not always better, unless you don't have enough now, or we would all have HDTs!

Brian

My reply was specifically to address the comments earlier that said "Honestly, outside of contrived situations, it's just impossible to argue that a dually isn't better in basically every towing situation than a SRW. It's better towing light, heavy and everything in between. Duallys are built to tow, everything else can tow, but is built to drive. Lots of things that would push people away from a dually for regular driving; bascially duallies are all "cons" until you get to towing. Then the situation is reversed, SRW is almost all cons, duallies nearly all pros.
That is stated about as well as I have ever seen it put. I guess I'd add one minor tweak: ...it's just impossible to intelligently argue ..."

The quoted item says duallys are "always better, light, heavy, and everything in between." And no one can "intelligently" challenge this. So towing light with 10x margin is not as good as 20x which is not as good as 100x. And no one else can say anything otherwise. With that thought process more is always better. I just don't buy that and as you stated, you don't feel that either.

I agree that if owning a dually makes someone feel better they should buy one. I just don't agree with absolutes that it is always better for towing and no one can say otherwise. That is why we have a towing spec. And, as you noted, more is not always better.

[brandtb1919]

My reply was specifically to address the comments earlier that said "Honestly, outside of contrived situations, it's just impossible to argue that a dually isn't better in basically every towing situation than a SRW. It's better towing light, heavy and everything in between. Duallys are built to tow, everything else can tow, but is built to drive. Lots of things that would push people away from a dually for regular driving; bascially duallies are all "cons" until you get to towing. Then the situation is reversed, SRW is almost all cons, duallies nearly all pros.
That is stated about as well as I have ever seen it put. I guess I'd add one minor tweak: ...it's just impossible to intelligently argue ..."

The quoted item says duallys are "always better, light, heavy, and everything in between." And no one can "intelligently" challenge this. So towing light with 10x margin is not as good as 20x which is not as good as 100x. And no one else can say anything otherwise. With that thought process more is always better. I just don't buy that and as you stated, you don't feel that either.

I agree that if owning a dually makes someone feel better they should buy one. I just don't agree that it is always better for towing. That is why we have a towing spec. And, as you noted, more is not always better.

Agreed. Lots of opinions on this topic. I imagine that the person who started this thread has moved on with his life!

[Squanderosa]

@HoopyFrood
Curious. A mechanic told us that a problem with Doally trucks is, if you get a blowout in either rear wheel, it will total your truck and perhaps ruin your trailer. Don't know how true that is but it has us thinking about a SRW 3500 Diesel as we replace our F250 Diesel.

Anyone heard of this type of blowout?

[Hoopy Frood]

Well, I've never heard of that before, so it's a new one on me. Honestly can't see how a blowout could happen in such a way to "total" the truck. I think your mechanic has been sniffing too much gasoline.

A SRW will do the trick with many trailers and 5th wheels. A dually has it's place as you move up in hitch weight. If I had to use a dually as a daily driver, I wouldn't be thrilled with it, but our dually is almost 100% tow truck, and rarely gets used for much else. But I'd put up with the inconvenience of a DRW to have a truck that will do what I want it to do without feeling like I'm on the edge. But JMO of course.