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  1. #1
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    2022 Reflection 337 RLS - frame twisting

    On June 21 we picked up our first brand new fifth wheel. We had a 2017 Rockwood TT previously. Drove it from the dealer to our home 90 miles away. Backed it into the driveway, disconnected, chocked, levelled side to side. When I hit auto level, it lifted the driver's side wheels off the ground slightly, maybe 1/2 inch and I noticed the base of the jack was moving outboard at a slight angle. I had placed 3 lego blocks under each jack. It did not level perfectly, but it was good enough to start discovering all the goodies in our new trailer. I did some reading the next day and did a manual level and a zero point calibration. On subsequent trips, it levelled fine but I noticed the jack was pushing out a little more each time. We took 3 short camping trips last summer and on September 21, I took it back to the dealer after sending them photos of the jack.
    The tech that looked at it first said he had never seen that, the frame is twisting when the jack extends and makes ground contact. I asked him what we could do to fix it, he said if it was his trailer he would demand a replacement trailer. I was in shock. He advised me to contact GDRV because it would help speed up a claim and their warranty manager would submit the pre-auth to get the ball rolling.

    I established a line of communication with GDRV customer service rep on that same day, Sept 21, and have had numerous e-mails and phone conversations with her.

    On Oct 12, I contacted Lippert, they had a case #, but were waiting for clarification from GDRV dealer relations. On Oct 12, I contacted the dealer relations person and he told me he was waiting to hear back from the dealer. On Oct 14, I e-mailed the dealer relations person back and his terse reply was to "contact customer relations". I contacted my person at customer relations and she informed me that the info in the file stated that "it is under management review and it does not appear to be a manufacturing defect, but damage". I contacted the dealer again, he was waiting to hear from his representative. On Oct 23, I called the dealer and he informed me that his rep was in Mexico. It was somewhere around this time I found out the dealer relations person I had spoken to and e-mailed was no longer with the company. Dealer informed me that there was an RV convention coming up in Vegas in November and he would speak to his upper management contact during this convention.

    On Oct 25 I contacted a trailer frame repair shop in the dealer's city. I sent him photos of the jack/frame, over the phone the shop foreman informed me that he was familiar with frame twisting problems like this (he had not inspected my trailer, yet), and that they had two solutions:

    1) a $6000 fix that would be guaranteed to never go out of alignment or
    2) a $2000 fix that would solve the problem but may need subsequent alignments in the future

    On this date I also contacted a Regional Service Manager at GDRV, she wanted to see the video that the dealer said he was going to take. I said I would contact him to send it to her. I then found out that no video had been taken. I sent photos to customer service at Lippert.

    On Oct 27, dealer phoned me and said that they were sending more photos to GDRV and were trying to get them and Lippert to agree to warranty repairs. I informed the dealer that I would prefer to have it repaired locally as opposed to being sent back to the factory.

    Oct 28 - received an e-mail from Lippert stating that they would authorize 2 hours labor, one hour to remove the jack and one hour to repair the bracket.

    fast forward to November 15 - I phoned the dealer to inquire as to the conversation he had at the Vegas RV convention Nov 8-12. It never happened. I then re-contacted the trailer frame repair shop and asked if he would go look at my trailer and come up with a repair plan. On Friday Nov 19, he went to the dealer. On Friday Oct 26, I received an e-mailed quote for the repair - $9935.21. This represents approx. 12.5% of the purchase price of the trailer.

    Nov 30 - I e-mailed the quote to the Regional Service Manager, she replied by saying that "warranty refused, not defect, owner damage".

    I phoned GDRV customer service and the Regional Service Manager answered, which was surprising, same person that had e-mailed me back. She informed me that she had contacted the trailer frame repair shop and was awaiting details of the intended repair.

    Dec 17 - I e-mailed the dealer and he responded " I am reaching out to my contact as a last hope to receive warranty".

    So, that's where we are at. The trailer has sat on their lot for over THREE months and we are absolutely no closer to getting it fixed.
    I apologize for the long story, I have eight pages of notes relating every phone call, face to face contact and e-mail. This was the abridged version.

    Attachment 38242

    I am looking for suggestions from anyone who may have experienced this problem. Technical solutions etc. I am also concerned as to how this might affect my suspension, premature tire wear?

    Thanks,
    Last edited by Sparky12; 12-23-2021 at 03:26 PM.
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

  2. #2
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    Maybe it is time to escalate past the service manager. Contact Grand Design diectly with
    your issues to Jerry Mcarthy, it's not as easy to get through as it used to be but can still be contacted.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
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  3. #3
    Seasoned Camper RoJoSo's Avatar
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    Sending GD Corp a Certified Letter with a Restrictive Signature for Don Clark, President & Chief Executive Officer at Grand Design RV
    would certainly get you a resposnse. I'd even send certified copies to Senior Mgt. I think you have been patient long enough.
    2020 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS 5th Wheel
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  4. #4
    Rolling Along Spartacus's Avatar
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    Wow, that don't look good, I agree on what have been say you are going to get the big boys on this one, it's a brand-new 5th wheel.
    2022 GMC Denali Ultimate DRW
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  5. #5
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    It doesn't appear that the bracket for the leg is moving independant of the frame. It appears that the frame is twisting as you stated.
    This is pretty bad. The only thing that could cause this is some crossmembers either missing, or not welded to the main frame rails. I do not think I would want just a patch job on this such as installing a missing crossmember, or welding it now, as the main frame member has been twisting... It needs to be replaced IMO, and that pretty much means a new trailer

    And welding on a frame is not easy after a trailer is built. Too many flamable things are now attached to it.
    Last edited by huntindog; 12-27-2021 at 06:30 AM.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  6. #6
    Site Team Redapple63's Avatar
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    2022 Reflection 337 RLS - frame twisting

    How can GD even think that would be owner damage? I agree with others that there is a broken or missing welds that are allowing the frame to distort like that. I am so sorry for your troubles. Keep on Lippert and GD!
    2019 GMC 3500 SRW Sierra Denali Duramax
    2020 Reflection 315RLTS

  7. #7
    Seasoned Camper
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    Sparky12,
    Could the coraplast be dropped down and then verify if the cross members were installed and welded? It is tough to see in the picture the frame twisting. The jack support bracket has defiantly compromised and will continue to flex outward with the trailer load applied. Need to verify the frames structural integrity first. If in fact, it was compromised by poor workmanship I would demand GD warranty consideration for a replacement unit. GD built a reputation on taking care of their customers. I will be very interested in how this plays out for you. Keep us posted.

    Dutchman2
    Jim & Patricia
    2021 Reflection 337RLS
    2024 GMC 3500HD CC-SRW-SB Duramax

  8. #8
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman2 View Post
    Sparky12,
    Could the coraplast be dropped down and then verify if the cross members were installed and welded? It is tough to see in the picture the frame twisting. The jack support bracket has defiantly compromised and will continue to flex outward with the trailer load applied. Need to verify the frames structural integrity first. If in fact, it was compromised by poor workmanship I would demand GD warranty consideration for a replacement unit. GD built a reputation on taking care of their customers. I will be very interested in how this plays out for you. Keep us posted.

    Dutchman2
    Surprisingly, there has been zero examination of the frame. The coroplast has not been dropped so the frame has not been inspected. In the dealers defence, they are not getting any direction from GD, and they are I’ll equipped to perform frame repairs.I have spoken with dealer relations at GD and asked them specifically to contact the dealer with an inspection and repair procedure. This has not happened yet. The dealer relations person I spoke to is no longer with the company. I subsequently asked customer service people to please get in contact with the dealer, as far as I know, this has not happened yet.
    I agree, having a look at the frame is the logical start. It’s been on their lot for well over three months and no closer to finding out what is wrong. You can’t fix it if you don’t know what’s wrong.

  9. #9
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky12 View Post
    Surprisingly, there has been zero examination of the frame. The coroplast has not been dropped so the frame has not been inspected. In the dealers defence, they are not getting any direction from GD, and they are I’ll equipped to perform frame repairs.I have spoken with dealer relations at GD and asked them specifically to contact the dealer with an inspection and repair procedure. This has not happened yet. The dealer relations person I spoke to is no longer with the company. I subsequently asked customer service people to please get in contact with the dealer, as far as I know, this has not happened yet.
    I agree, having a look at the frame is the logical start. It’s been on their lot for well over three months and no closer to finding out what is wrong. You can’t fix it if you don’t know what’s wrong.
    Man, I would encourage you to get the bull's horns yourself! Get your case number from GD. If the CSR cannot orchestrate the frame inspection with Lippert, you do so with that case number and photos. If Lippert has seen it before, they'll have criteria for the dealer to check out. If they have not, they will try to find out if there's local skills to look closely into it or send out one of their mobile guys to the dealer. If Lippert says it can be repaired, you want that in writing along with repaired frame has warranty in full force, especially if they allow a third-party repair. You have been flexing the web of the main frame beam. Should not be happening. Likely not enough for a fatigue issue, but good chance the inadequate support has also affected the beam camber. Can it be fixed? Sure. However, your unit is brand new and it's a pretty significant repair if recambering is needed in addition to the needed stiffening.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

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  10. #10
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    Man, I would encourage you to get the bull's horns yourself! Get your case number from GD. If the CSR cannot orchestrate the frame inspection with Lippert, you do so with that case number and photos. If Lippert has seen it before, they'll have criteria for the dealer to check out. If they have not, they will try to find out if there's local skills to look closely into it or send out one of their mobile guys to the dealer. If Lippert says it can be repaired, you want that in writing along with repaired frame has warranty in full force, especially if they allow a third-party repair. You have been flexing the web of the main frame beam. Should not be happening. Likely not enough for a fatigue issue, but good chance the inadequate support has also affected the beam camber. Can it be fixed? Sure. However, your unit is brand new and it's a pretty significant repair if recambering is needed in addition to the needed stiffening.
    Thanks, this is EXACTLY the information I am looking for. I thought it would be sufficient to take my trailer back to the dealer and they would contact me in a timely manner when it was ready to pick up. I have the case numbers from both GD and Lippert, but Lippert is only authorizing 2 hours labor to facilitate the repair. I informed them that this was not adequate. I will be contacting them again.
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

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