Winter Camping

[ZuriHagel]

I wanted to get some recommendations on Winter Camping. I have a 22MLE TT with the 4 seasons options which means the underbelly is insulated.

We don’t get very cold weather in the Pacific Northwest and I bought the camper to use year round. There are cold spells and one is coming where it will be in the 20’s to teens.

While in my driveway I have a 12 amp oil heater in the rig and it keeps it room temperature and I keep the water heater and frig on with electric. I keep the gas set at 60 or so in case the oil heater can’t keep up. I keep the slide closed too and I often go there to watch TV.

I don’t use the city water, I keep the tank partially filled with water so it doesn’t freeze and use the gravity feed to do that. I leave the water pump off unless I use it and it is in the cabin.

My worry is the insulated area where the tanks and pex run. It says that area is vented to the cabin so I’m guessing the temp in there stays above freezing if the room temp is in the high 60’s - anyone know?

Also I thought about regular frost king heat tape for the exposed plastic pipes under the camper. Those are the sewer and gray water valves in particular.

I think the low point drains and the fresh water drain can be left as is and maybe a hair dryer if they are frozen to drain?

Looking for some experience here

Thank you!


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[jkwilson]

Your understanding that the underbelly is insulated is, at best, exaggerated. Maybe a sheet of foil on top of the coroplast.

Your furnace needs to run, regardless of how warm it is in the living area. It circulates warm air within the underbelly.

[ZuriHagel]

Your understanding that the underbelly is insulated is, at best, exaggerated. Maybe a sheet of foil on top of the coroplast.

Your furnace needs to run, regardless of how warm it is in the living area. It circulates warm air within the underbelly.

Do you know if the belly is vented to the cabin or not, for example using a fan to blow warm air through the vent that leads to the bed? I was thinking it’s likely vented as it runs from the back of the rig to the front.

I’m only going on the claims of GDRV. It does look like blown in foam insulation to me but I’m just looking at where the the holes come in from below. Do you have the 4 seasons on your rig?

I’m also new to the trailer - so I didn’t mean to exaggerate … I thought perhaps the claims are exaggerated but they are not mine.


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[ZuriHagel]

Do you know if the belly is vented to the cabin or not, for example using a fan to blow warm air through the vent that leads to the bed? I was thinking it’s likely vented as it runs from the back of the rig to the front.

I’m only going on the claims of GDRV. It does look like blown in foam insulation to me but I’m just looking at where the the holes come in from below. Do you have the 4 seasons on your rig?

I’m also new to the trailer - so I didn’t mean to exaggerate … I thought perhaps the claims are exaggerated but they are not mine.


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The heater has a squirrel fan that takes air from the cabin and circulates it over the burner tubes. The specs say it’s a dedicated duct.

I should have thought of that before posting. That’s how the heater worked in my pop up except it needed to be on.

My rig has a fan mode, so I think it will circulate the heated cabin air to the underbelly from the intake which I believe is on top of the furnace under the sink.

Not ideal to run the furnace fan all the time. I think I’ll get a temperature sensor for down there so I know for sure during cold weather.

I think blocking the vents in the cabin will increase the air flow to the underbelly … anyway this post may be more appropriate for the heating forum.


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[Redapple63]

Howdy,

The four season thing is all marketing. The underbelly is enclosed, which is a great thing for keeping critters out. Most of these don’t have any real insulation on the, just a foil type material which may add a bit of r value, but very little.

The underbelly is heated by the heater, so if you wish to prevent water lines from freezing you definitely need to run the heat.

Some on this forum have undertaken the task of removing the chloroplast (underbelly membrane) to do things like insulate water lines and clean up electrical bundles. They have also taken the time to bring the water lines closer up to the floor so they don’t just lay on the foil, and they have also added insulation. This is a big job.

Your best bet is to winterize the water system and only use it for three seasons. You could certainly depend on the oil fired heater to keep the cabin warm with no worry of the water lines. If you want or have to have the water available, you will need to run the heat.

Thanks,
Bill

[huntindog]

Howdy,

The four season thing is all marketing. The underbelly is enclosed, which is a great thing for keeping critters out. Most of these don’t have any real insulation on the, just a foil type material which may add a bit of r value, but very little.

The underbelly is heated by the heater, so if you wish to prevent water lines from freezing you definitely need to run the heat.

Some on this forum have undertaken the task of removing the chloroplast (underbelly membrane) to do things like insulate water lines and clean up electrical bundles. They have also taken the time to bring the water lines closer up to the floor so they don’t just lay on the foil, and they have also added insulation. This is a big job.

Your best bet is to winterize the water system and only use it for three seasons. You could certainly depend on the oil fired heater to keep the cabin warm with no worry of the water lines. If you want or have to have the water available, you will need to run the heat.

Thanks,
Bill

I have done all of that and more to improve cold weather use. And it sure is a big job.. I will say though that my Momentum was actually insulated pretty well. I had to go into the underbelly for another reason, and did not like all of that fiberglass insulation though. They install it while the frame is upside down, and gravity is helping them.... As an owner trying to repair/ upgrade etc. it will never be upside down and will be falling all over the place So I installed ridgid insulation boards cut to fit. Now any time I need to go into it, it is easy. While I was at it, I installed as much as would fit. This makes a very noticeable difference. But it sure isn't a weekend project... Also, since it is such a big job I used the best type there is. Polyisocronate, 1" equals R6.5. I have a MINIMUM of 2" and in most areas a lot more. It is the same amount of work whether one uses the cheap stuff or the good stuff.

[ZuriHagel]

Howdy,

The four season thing is all marketing. The underbelly is enclosed, which is a great thing for keeping critters out. Most of these don’t have any real insulation on the, just a foil type material which may add a bit of r value, but very little.

The underbelly is heated by the heater, so if you wish to prevent water lines from freezing you definitely need to run the heat.

Some on this forum have undertaken the task of removing the chloroplast (underbelly membrane) to do things like insulate water lines and clean up electrical bundles. They have also taken the time to bring the water lines closer up to the floor so they don’t just lay on the foil, and they have also added insulation. This is a big job.

Your best bet is to winterize the water system and only use it for three seasons. You could certainly depend on the oil fired heater to keep the cabin warm with no worry of the water lines. If you want or have to have the water available, you will need to run the heat.

Thanks,
Bill

I’m going to see how the fan mode works and where the duct goes off the suburban heater. I’m hoping that running the fan will draw enough cabin air to keep things from freezing without running the furnace. Also having the hot water heater on should provide some heat in the water lines.

Another idea would be to put an in line duct fan on the underbelly run that draws a lot of air for that one line.


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[huntindog]

I’m going to see how the fan mode works and where the duct goes off the suburban heater. I’m hoping that running the fan will draw enough cabin air to keep things from freezing without running the furnace. Also having the hot water heater on should provide some heat in the water lines.

Another idea would be to put an in line duct fan on the underbelly run that draws a lot of air for that one line.


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Remember a few old sayings: here is no such thing as a free lunch:You can't get something for nothing, and: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
They all apply to this idea. Trying heat the underbelly with 60 degree air will fall far short of the BTUs needed to prevent freezeups, AND that 60 degree air you are sending to the underbelly will be replaced in the living area with air far colder than 60 degrees. The oil filled heater does not produce enough BTUs to keep up, so the living area air will start to drop below 60 degrees. Soon you would be pumping 55 then 50, 45 etc. into the underbelly.
The inline fan idea would just speeed the process up.

It is a losing battle. I cold weather camp a lot. You just have to face the fact that heating an RV in cold weather will consume a LOT of energy to produce the BTUs needed.

[Second Chance]

I’m going to see how the fan mode works and where the duct goes off the suburban heater. I’m hoping that running the fan will draw enough cabin air to keep things from freezing without running the furnace. Also having the hot water heater on should provide some heat in the water lines.

Another idea would be to put an in line duct fan on the underbelly run that draws a lot of air for that one line.


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The "Fan Mode" is for the air conditioner only - has nothing to do with the furnace. With your trailer, there is basically no way around running the main furnace to keep the underbelly heated. Be extremely careful about running other heaters such as an electric fireplace or portable electric heaters (or your oil heater) inside. Those will keep the main furnace from cycling and you'll end up with frozen water lines. If you want a better understanding of how the Imagines are put together, take a look here:

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...e/construction

As others have said, the "Four Seasons Package" is a marketing gimmick.

Rob

[ZuriHagel]

The "Fan Mode" is for the air conditioner only - has nothing to do with the furnace. With your trailer, there is basically no way around running the main furnace to keep the underbelly heated. Be extremely careful about running other heaters such as an electric fireplace or portable electric heaters (or your oil heater) inside. Those will keep the main furnace from cycling and you'll end up with frozen water lines. If you want a better understanding of how the Imagines are put together, take a look here:

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...e/construction

As others have said, the "Four Seasons Package" is a marketing gimmick.

Rob

It is the AC only. I use the furnace fan in the house to circulate air when I heat with wood.

I looked at the ducting and there is no way around this, either no water in the lines or running the furnace the whole time.

The 22MLE is small with the slide in so the oil heater works well for me but you all are correct it’s just not hot enough to keep the lines from freezing if the underbelly needs forced hot air from the heater.

My question would be no water in the lines is enough if the cabin is heated of have to winterize it every time?


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