Noisy Goosebox? Allow me to help..

[4x4dually]

Based on the polishing, it's rotating within sleeves. No big deal to have a shaft made with either end drilled with grease passage that then ports to the sleeve. Shaft can then be externally threaded for nuts and also machined flat to take a wrench if one is too tight and needs a wrench. New are made all the time for old elbows on heavy equipment. If Horizon doesn't charge an arm and a leg for another pin, I'll get one and see what my machinist would charge to make an improved replacement.

Yup. We got a good local machine guy who can do almost anything. I really want to take mine completely apart so I can understand exactly what and how it's all working together.

[Overtaxed]

Wow, you guys beat me to it, awesome pictures and, yes, that's exactly what I did. A tapered drift would be the perfect tool to keep alignment if you have one, otherwise, the 1/2 in 1/2 out method would also work well. Or get another pin and use it to drive the other one out.

After reading through this and seeing other comments I remain "stunned by stupidity" about the construction on this thing. I mean, is there a more obvious "this needs grease" joint possible?? There is a zerk on the Goosebox for the sliding mechanism that closes the jaws, nice, but not a critical joint to keep bathed in grease. Low force, very infrequent movement. But this pin is as "high force/high movement" as a pinned joint can be. Unless you're talking a really big excavator, I suspect the forces on this pin exceed that of most heavy equipment AND there's more movement because of the constant back and forth as you drive along. Just boggles my mind that nobody thought "you know, we should really drill this pin and put in grease passages"?! Actually, knowing how corporate America works, I'm SURE there's an engineer somewhere in Reese who said exactly that, probably yelled it, as this was being designed and some bean counter somewhere said "no".

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm buying stuff for my tractor, often the "number of zerks" is a buying criteria for me. Because if there are pivots without them, I know that either
A) I'm going to have to drill/tap them in
B) This is where it's going to break

4x4, if you get a machine shop to do the work, if you don't mind posting the cost, I'd consider taking it to my guy to do a job on it, but I honestly have no idea what "reasonable" would even be for a job like this. Seems pretty straightforward, put it on a lathe, drill out the center from either side, then drill in from the sides to give the grease a way out, right?

[geotex1]

Wow, you guys beat me to it, awesome pictures and, yes, that's exactly what I did. A tapered drift would be the perfect tool to keep alignment if you have one, otherwise, the 1/2 in 1/2 out method would also work well. Or get another pin and use it to drive the other one out.

After reading through this and seeing other comments I remain "stunned by stupidity" about the construction on this thing. I mean, is there a more obvious "this needs grease" joint possible?? There is a zerk on the Goosebox for the sliding mechanism that closes the jaws, nice, but not a critical joint to keep bathed in grease. Low force, very infrequent movement. But this pin is as "high force/high movement" as a pinned joint can be. Unless you're talking a really big excavator, I suspect the forces on this pin exceed that of most heavy equipment AND there's more movement because of the constant back and forth as you drive along. Just boggles my mind that nobody thought "you know, we should really drill this pin and put in grease passages"?! Actually, knowing how corporate America works, I'm SURE there's an engineer somewhere in Reese who said exactly that, probably yelled it, as this was being designed and some bean counter somewhere said "no".

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm buying stuff for my tractor, often the "number of zerks" is a buying criteria for me. Because if there are pivots without them, I know that either
A) I'm going to have to drill/tap them in
B) This is where it's going to break

4x4, if you get a machine shop to do the work, if you don't mind posting the cost, I'd consider taking it to my guy to do a job on it, but I honestly have no idea what "reasonable" would even be for a job like this. Seems pretty straightforward, put it on a lathe, drill out the center from either side, then drill in from the sides to give the grease a way out, right?

It's the case hardening that drives the cost up. You have to turn the shaft very close on a lathe, case harden the alloy, and then you're polishing down to final fit. For all the rational reasons you went through, it's why you want it hardened IMO. The design also does not share replaceable bushings like heavy equipment have in these connections based on Horizin's parts diagrams.

[Overtaxed]

It's the case hardening that drives the cost up. You have to turn the shaft very close on a lathe, case harden the alloy, and then you're polishing down to final fit. For all the rational reasons you went through, it's why you want it hardened IMO. The design also does not share replaceable bushings like heavy equipment have in these connections based on Horizin's parts diagrams.

That would probably be best, but, honestly, if this thing lasted "long enough" in a totally dry joint, I have to believe if you have a way to pump in grease it'll last so long that I won't care anymore if it fails. It's a huge shaft and I'm sure that Reese just figures it'll wear away slowly enough (making a horrific noise the entire time) that most people won't use it enough to make it fail. Add some grease, I suspect it'll be a "forever" part for more of us.

You could probably go all out on this thing and either bore out or bush the existing hole down and add some wear shims (like you'd find on a crankshaft). A lot of ways that they could have done this better, but the easiest, by far IMHO, would have been to drill the pin and add a 2 zerks to pump some grease in there. For 99% of us, I think that would have been more than enough.

I did want to add one thing, if you're hearing noise from the GB, at least for me, it means it's not working as well as it should. The drive down from NJ (~400 miles) yesterday was MUCH better than the drive up there a week ago (and not just because leaving NJ is always great!). I'm sure that's because the pin wasn't allowing the movement that it should, it was "sticky" (which is what made the noise) and transferring too much energy to the truck/trailer and not enough to the bag and shock. So it's not just as "shut UP!" fix, IMHO, it also made the system work better to be correctly lubricated.

[SolarPoweredRV]

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[geotex1]

That would probably be best, but, honestly, if this thing lasted "long enough" in a totally dry joint, I have to believe if you have a way to pump in grease it'll last so long that I won't care anymore if it fails. It's a huge shaft and I'm sure that Reese just figures it'll wear away slowly enough (making a horrific noise the entire time) that most people won't use it enough to make it fail. Add some grease, I suspect it'll be a "forever" part for more of us.

You could probably go all out on this thing and either bore out or bush the existing hole down and add some wear shims (like you'd find on a crankshaft). A lot of ways that they could have done this better, but the easiest, by far IMHO, would have been to drill the pin and add a 2 zerks to pump some grease in there. For 99% of us, I think that would have been more than enough.

I did want to add one thing, if you're hearing noise from the GB, at least for me, it means it's not working as well as it should. The drive down from NJ (~400 miles) yesterday was MUCH better than the drive up there a week ago (and not just because leaving NJ is always great!). I'm sure that's because the pin wasn't allowing the movement that it should, it was "sticky" (which is what made the noise) and transferring too much energy to the truck/trailer and not enough to the bag and shock. So it's not just as "shut UP!" fix, IMHO, it also made the system work better to be correctly lubricated.

Maybe, maybe not. One of the base rules in mechanical/materials engineering - do not use the same material in mating parts. You can use the same steel to different hardening spec. What is interesting is the polish in the mating surface in the provided picture suggests treated steel.
That makes sense. However, your findings were of a corroded shaft. Was the metal stained too? Makes me wonder if the overseas production of the shafts is lacking QC and its luck of the draw (I have over 13K of towing through all weather and no groan). Case hardening is a batch process compared to induction hardening, so you can get lousy treatment when not executed well. Trust me, my plant in China has a much higher breakdown rate compared to my plant in Poland for identical line machinery but the Poland machinery all made by German and Swedish makers and the China plant all Chinese made... Anyway, my ponder is that the standard design of such joint wouldn't use plain carbon steel for both sleeve and shaft with no lube because it will mean siezing. The sleeves look to just be welded to the folded steel lower. That's where to cheap out and use plain carbon steel for both because a trained monkey can make a competent weld in such case. So understanding all too well the bean counter influence to product manufacturing, I rationalize the shaft is intended to be treated, which also hives with these connections on heavy equipment where a Rockwell of 60 is pretty typical. Then, your experience, t leads to question the quality of the supply. 4140 is mostly what you find used in heavy equipment pin shafts, but it's induction hardened. That's a more expensive route than case hardened. Higher end precision joints you often see heat treated 17-4 stainless, which is way more expensive for tiny piecemeal... No doubt that even if I engage John at Horizon, he won't share the details since it's patented...

Oh, you could also just blame NJ! Save the flames too - wife and I were born and raised there! Lol

[Overtaxed]

Oh, you could also just blame NJ! Save the flames too - wife and I were born and raised there! Lol

Same here, my wife and I also born/raised there. Didn't really notice how awful the roads were until we moved to FL.

Was the metal stained too?

Beyond the rust, I didn't notice much. I also didn't clean off the rust, I didn't have the right tools to do it (again, in a driveway!), so I just greased everything up (both the shaft and the mating surfaces) and put it back together. It wasn't awful, but it was clearly rusted, could easily feel it with your fingers, about 80 grit sandpaper if I had to draw a comparison. Also, it was the entire length of the shaft (not just the mating surfaces). Also, there was no grease on anything at all, entirely dry, so your theory that it's supposed to be metal/metal with two different types of steel that wear well together is reasonable.

I'm sure there is some way to do this that would never require grease. But I'd also venture a guess that would be expensive (which seems to be indicated by your post). I've never seen a joint like this in a tractor/hoe/excavator/skid/etc that didn't have a grease fitting on it. I'm assuming the reason they do that is because it would be too costly to make all those pins and collars out of material that doesn't need grease?

I'll admit, I love grease. I can't remember the last time I've had a greased joint wear out, and I could probably fill a 5 gallon bucket with "never lube" joints that I have that have failed. Grease just seems to make things like pins and pivots last basically forever, protects them from friction and rust, and of course, makes them move easily and quietly against one another. I always get annoyed at myself when I'm using a FEL or backhoe and it squeaks, indicates to me that my greasing hasn't been up to snuff!

[geotex1]

@Overtaxed, you got it with cost being a major consideration both originally and for field service. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a pin pressed out versus beaten... The other thing with heavy equipment is that their fabrication is still predominantly by hand, so tolerances are wider in these connections to account for the variation. High pressure grease then literally fills the gap for smoother operation. Now I have mills in my WY plant that are over a century old still running on the same pivots as when built! Fascinating history, check out the details on the longest continuously operating bearing design from the Holtwood Hydroelectric Dam...

Being the Goosebox is not precision equipment (nor construction), I too am in the camp of lubricateable design. I honestly would be ok with old-fashioned oiling holes where I could get the CLP in with no additional effort.

[Band1t]

@Overtaxed, you got it with cost being a major consideration both originally and for field service. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a pin pressed out versus beaten... The other thing with heavy equipment is that their fabrication is still predominantly by hand, so tolerances are wider in these connections to account for the variation. High pressure grease then literally fills the gap for smoother operation. Now I have mills in my WY plant that are over a century old still running on the same pivots as when built! Fascinating history, check out the details on the longest continuously operating bearing design from the Holtwood Hydroelectric Dam...

Being the Goosebox is not precision equipment (nor construction), I too am in the camp of lubricateable design. I honestly would be ok with old-fashioned oiling holes where I could get the CLP in with no additional effort.

Great news to hear about this. I will be switching my pin box to a GN, but will most likely go the Gen-Y. I spoke to a DRV rep, as we were considering a DRV. The rep recommended Gen -Y over the Reese due to the heavier DRV. Just passing on what I was told to others.

[BrokeDown]

Honestly, best of all would be just getting a 2nd pin from Reese, grease up the new one, and use the new one to push the old one out; that way you'd never have to deal with alignment.

As I was reading through, I was thinking the same thing. When I get mine, I'll contact Reese to see if they will sell me one.


-B