Lithium Batteries still smart idea if NOT boondocking or two 6 volts?

[traveldawg]

I love reading all of the different opinions on batteries, their usage, optional equipment needed and so on. I've had this GD RV for 3 years now and can't say I've had any problems with my factory L.A. battery. The double fridge with it's 4 fans consume the most power from the battery (for us) when not plugged into shore power. I've had no problem making it the whole night on an occasional boondocking stop. With the fridge & water heater on propane, LED lights, the water pump, and limited furnace use the battery still only drops by 25-30% overnight. I too carry a Honda 2000W generator for emergency use and use it when needed. We'll be boondocking for 10 nights at the Daytona 500 next month and like we've done in the past the Honda generator will be hooked up to an extended run 6 gallon fuel tank and run for 4-6 hrs a day. That's plenty of time to replenish the battery to 100% and use it throughout the night. When the generator runs in the evening we'll usually get in some TV time, charge cellphones, and anything else we need the 120v power for. Last time we did this at Daytona 500 we were there for 14 nights and went through about 10-12 gallons of fuel... even ran the bedroom AC on 2 different occasions. For me and the way we use the RV the stock LA battery has been just fine.

I use to go to the races and always used 2 Honda 2000s for power for a week. Like you, I fed off a bigger tank. Really nice set up. I still carry those 2 generators - gotta love 'em.

[traveldawg]

You cannot get a LA battery back to 100% in a camping situation. You can get to 80% or so. After that it slows down dramactically as the battery will just not accept a faster charge. Getting a LA battery to full charge takes 24 to 40 hours of charging. So what happens is you will have a 100% battery for day one, and then 80% for each day after that. This is where Lithiums really shine, They accept a lot of charge current right up to 99% charge. In practice I have found it easy to get to 100% each day.

Now obviously, 80% has been working for you, and it does for many people... But if your needs ever get more demanding, now you know what is happening.

I'm not sure I understand this business of not getting full charged until 24 to 40 hours. When I travel and plug in my RV after traveling for 2 to 6 hours the charge side of the inverter/convert goes into bulk for some amount of time (generally not long) then absorption and finally to float after only a few hours; maybe 4 or 6 at the most, but I think it's closer to 2 to 4. So are you saying at float charge my batteries still aren't charged? Or that somehow it is different when running a generator? I run AGMs but I had the same experience when I had LA.

[traveldawg]

A couple of questions.
1) How does LifeBlue support compare to BattleBorn (which from what I've read on the forum is excellent)? Looks like comparable cost point between the two.
2) For the LifeBlue, a quick read seems like they can be charged from a number of sources with existing inverters/chargers. In our case we have factory solar, factory generator, and inverter. Do the LifeBlue's eliminate the need for a Lithium charger (say the Progressive Dynamics I was looking at for BattleBorn)?
3) For those with a 310GK, did you place the batteries in their up front compartment where the LAs were (I have factory solar and genny and looks like both battery boxes and inverter are in the usual place).

I foresee us spending some evenings off grid.

Thanks,
John&Robin

I have a 2000 W Xantrex Freedom Inverter/Charger. It doesn't have a Li profile that can be selected. But it has a customer profile that can be set. I contacted Xantrex and they said just use the custom profile set to what the battery manufacturer specs; I called LifeBlu and they gave me the settings for the charge profile.

[huntindog]

I'm not sure I understand this business of not getting full charged until 24 to 40 hours. When I travel and plug in my RV after traveling for 2 to 6 hours the charge side of the inverter/convert goes into bulk for some amount of time (generally not long) then absorption and finally to float after only a few hours; maybe 4 or 6 at the most, but I think it's closer to 2 to 4. So are you saying at float charge my batteries still aren't charged? Or that somehow it is different when running a generator? I run AGMs but I had the same experience when I had LA.

Generator or shore power, it makes no difference.
And yes, when your converter goes into float the batteries are not 100%. It goes into float as the LA battery slows down in accepting the charge. It will take a looong time before they are at 100%.

In order to have a much better idea of just what percentage your battery is charged to, you can install a shunt that will monitor the amps going into and out of the battery. That is the most accurate easy way of doing it.
I highly recommend this.

[IBEW Sparky]

I'm not sure I understand this business of not getting full charged until 24 to 40 hours. When I travel and plug in my RV after traveling for 2 to 6 hours the charge side of the inverter/convert goes into bulk for some amount of time (generally not long) then absorption and finally to float after only a few hours; maybe 4 or 6 at the most, but I think it's closer to 2 to 4. So are you saying at float charge my batteries still aren't charged? Or that somehow it is different when running a generator? I run AGMs but I had the same experience when I had LA.

It's my understanding that it could take 24-40 hrs for a fully depleted battery. In my situation I was only depleting the battery by 25-30% so the 4-6 hrs was sufficient to get the battery back to 98-100% and drop back into the float stage. I'm sure if I drained the L.A. battery down too low to be of any use that it would take much longer to recover.

[huntindog]

It's my understanding that it could take 24-40 hrs for a fully depleted battery. In my situation I was only depleting the battery by 25-30% so the 4-6 hrs was sufficient to get the battery back to 98-100% and drop back into the float stage. I'm sure if I drained the L.A. battery down too low to be of any use that it would take much longer to recover.

That is not quite how it works. When you draw from a LA battery, the energy that comes out of it first as in the first 20 % will take the longest to put back into it....So it will take longer than 4- 6 hours to put it back. When you deplete a LA battery further, that energy can be put back in much faster... 4-6 hours is doable for that part. So you really have been operating at a different battery storage level than you thought. You really need a shunt with a battery monitor to "know" where you are at. Hint: Dropping into float does not mean it is at 100%.

[ajg617]

That is not quite how it works. When you draw from a LA battery, the energy that comes out of it first as in the first 20 % will take the longest to put back into it....So it will take longer than 4- 6 hours to put it back. When you deplete a LA battery further, that energy can be put back in much faster... 4-6 hours is doable for that part. So you really have been operating at a different battery storage level than you thought. You really need a shunt with a battery monitor to "know" where you are at. Hint: Dropping into float does not mean it is at 100%.

Interesting - I'm assuming this is true for LA and AGMs? Under normal use, do they ever get back to 100%?

[huntindog]

Interesting - I'm assuming this is true for LA and AGMs? Under normal use, do they ever get back to 100%?

Not in a boondock, camping situation.....Unless you run a generator non stop for 24-40 hours.

My brother often camps with us with his cabover. He noticed that his single battery always lasted longer on day one, of a 2 week outing. When I went to Battle borns, he did as well. He is thrilled, as everyday is now like day one.
So for him, this /was big deal and well worth the money to upgrade..... But if you are like Geotex and getting along fine with your current setup, it would be a waste of money to do it. It doesn't really matter just what level your battery is running at, so long as you have power when you need it.
LA batteries work well for many people, but lithiums do some things better. For myself, it is not just about the charging. It was the maintainence free aspect that allowed me to mount a large battery bank in a location that otherwise would not have worked. And the long lifespan, for the same reason along with the fact that the cost per year of ownership will be lower, and finally they weigh less than half of what a LA battery does.... Since I run a fairly large bank, that was a pretty big consideration.

On edit: the weight difference is even larger than I stated.... Since a LA battery typicaly has 85-95 AHs with usable only being 50% of that... It bascially takes 2 LA batteries t to equal the power that one, 100 AH Battleborn can supply. And those two LA batteries will weigh around #100 vs. a single Battle Born at #30 .

[Dale B]

Good discussion about the final charge of LA or AGM to get them back to 100% in a reasonable period of time.

The answer is YES however many charger should they be converters, solar or the simple battery chargers won't do it or a very long period of time to do so.

Boggart Engineering is the one I use with a shunt, which measures power or current in & out. It is displayed in % of power available, just like looking @ your gas gauge.

AGM & LA won't easily accept the last 20% of charge & most chargers revert to float @ this point. The fourth stage of the not so average chargers forces the final 20%. They will start cycling a higher voltage, I set mine for 15.9vdc max for this last stage. It will replace approx. 110% of what was been discharged, going over is what also improves the battery life.

My existing AGM batteries are 8 or 9 years old & are done. My fifth will sit on a recreation property with solar & batteries functioning form March until early October each year.

[ajg617]

On edit: the weight difference is even larger than I stated.... Since a LA battery typicaly has 85-95 AHs with usable only being 50% of that... It bascially takes 2 LA batteries t to equal the power that one, 100 AH Battleborn can supply. And those two LA batteries will weigh around #100 vs. a single Battle Born at #30 .

With the factory solar, there are two so pin weight and maintenance are also the highest on my list. We haven't taken delivery yet - not sure when now with snow yesterday and below zero forecast for next week but I'd rather not have the dealer install LAs when I don't want them.