LIFeO4 Batteries and charging while towing

[ajg617]

Interesting conversation with BattleBorn Friday. Two questions.
1) How low can the temperature go before the heating integrated into the batteries no longer provides protection? Not sure I got an answer to that but below -10F, cell damage can occur. We were -6 this morning and will be again tomorrow. Don't get below zero every winter - worst was -23F so it can happen. Not sure what the low for the heaters would be to remain effective.
2) PD charger I was looking at. Recommendation was to order the batteries and hold off the PD charger because they are seeing a very wide variety of makes/models - even on the same RV line - and many have lithium configs that can be set to BattleBorn's requirements. Make and model of installed charger first.

Follow-on question for the smart folks here is can I simply have the dealer install the BattleBorns (or whichever brand) instead of the LAs and be OK to get the rig home to add anything else (Victron 712 for instance or a PD charger if needed) without damaging the LiFePo4s or any of the existing charging system?

[xrated]

EVE and CATL are two different manufacturers, but both are considered good quality so with either one you should be OK. I think the CATL have higher charge/ discharge capabilities.

The Daly Smart BMS is actually a great product, although you might find the 200amp might be a little underpowered at 12v, depending on your inverter setup. Did you get the common port or separate port

I've been running a 500amp Daly Smart for over six months flawlessly. It's a bit overkill, for now, until I install inverters for 6000 watts of capabilities.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

OK, thank you for that info about EVE and CATL. Also, good to know that Daly, while maybe not the best choice, it's sounds like yours has been working very well...I'm certainly glad to hear that. I went with a 200A as I don't really have any high current loads.....no inverter at all. The highest load the battery sees is when the hydraulic pump is running for the slides or the leveling system. I've check that with a clamp on amprobe and about 70 amps is the highest I've seen. Oh, and the Daly BMS is a common port.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

OK, thank you for that info about EVE and CATL. Also, good to know that Daly, while maybe not the best choice, it's sounds like yours has been working very well...I'm certainly glad to hear that. I went with a 200A as I don't really have any high current loads.....no inverter at all. The highest load the battery sees is when the hydraulic pump is running for the slides or the leveling system. I've check that with a clamp on amprobe and about 70 amps is the highest I've seen. Oh, and the Daly BMS is a common port.

If you have no inverter and no generator, then you'll be great with the 200amp.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

[xrated]

If you have no inverter and no generator, then you'll be great with the 200amp.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

I do have an onboard Onan 5500 generator, but I don't think that will be any kind of issue for the battery and/or the BMS. At present, my 5 year old 6volt Trojan T105s start the generator with zero issues.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

I do have an onboard Onan 5500 generator, but I don't think that will be any kind of issue for the battery and/or the BMS. At present, my 5 year old 6volt Trojan T105s start the generator with zero issues.

Well, those Trojans are AGM, right? The only real advantage of lead batteries vs lithium is the cranking amps are far superior on lead. Lithium make bad starter batteries, comparitively.

My GenSet is rated at 450 CCA, which is probably the same as yours. My cells are .5c charge and 1c continuous discharge but can can pulse discharge at 2c for 30 seconds. With my current bank of 300ah cells, that just barely covers the specs of starting the generator.

Now that being said, my GenSet rarely pulls over 210amps while starting, so it hasn't been an issue yet. My GenSet is only a few hundred hours old and is well-maintained. I expect having the amps go up as the GenSet gets older.

You will want to check the spec sheet of your cells, if they are .5c continuous and 1c pulse, you will risk damaging or, at the very least, shortening the lifespan of your cells. Also check specks of your BMS, but 200amp Daly should pulse higher, but your set limit might cut it off.

Just food for thought.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

[avf100]

Battery cells arrived this afternoon. Perfect condition, zero damage, unbelievably good packaging. I'm impressed

So I broke out the Fluke meter and took a voltage reading on each cell. "A" rated batteries are supposed to be balanced equally and so here is the results.
Battery 1. 3.289 volts
Battery 2. 3.289 volts
Battery 3. 3.289 volts
Battery 4. 3.288 volts
1/1000 volt difference....I'm impressed

Where did you source all your battery parts from? I am considering going the Lithium route and looking at all my options at this point.

I would like to have a 200 ah battery

[xrated]

Well, those Trojans are AGM, right? The only real advantage of lead batteries vs lithium is the cranking amps are far superior on lead. Lithium make bad starter batteries, comparitively.

My GenSet is rated at 450 CCA, which is probably the same as yours. My cells are .5c charge and 1c continuous discharge but can can pulse discharge at 2c for 30 seconds. With my current bank of 300ah cells, that just barely covers the specs of starting the generator.

Now that being said, my GenSet rarely pulls over 210amps while starting, so it hasn't been an issue yet. My GenSet is only a few hundred hours old and is well-maintained. I expect having the amps go up as the GenSet gets older.

You will want to check the spec sheet of your cells, if they are .5c continuous and 1c pulse, you will risk damaging or, at the very least, shortening the lifespan of your cells. Also check specks of your BMS, but 200amp Daly should pulse higher, but your set limit might cut it off.

Just food for thought.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

Thanks again for that info. I remember seeing, and I just looked it up again, normal discharge is at 1c and surge is good for 2c @ 30 seconds on the battery. I can't really find any info about the Daly BMS as far as any kind of surge, but it does mention in the specs about "sparkle current". I don't know what sparkle current is, as it applies to the BMS, but it says 600 +/- for that. Do you have any idea what sparkle current is?

Edit:.....it appears to be similar to what most of us would refer to as pulse current. This would probably be something similar to what I refer to as inrush current at the exact moment that the starter motor is energized. Let me know if you have any further info or explanation on this.

PS.....BTW....the Trojans that I have presently, the T105s are FLA, not AGM.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Thanks again for that info. I remember seeing, and I just looked it up again, normal discharge is at 1c and surge is good for 2c @ 30 seconds on the battery. I can't really find any info about the Daly BMS as far as any kind of surge, but it does mention in the specs about "sparkle current". I don't know what sparkle current is, as it applies to the BMS, but it says 600 +/- for that. Do you have any idea what sparkle current is?

Edit:.....it appears to be similar to what most of us would refer to as pulse current. This would probably be something similar to what I refer to as inrush current at the exact moment that the starter motor is energized. Let me know if you have any further info or explanation on this.

Haha, yes... "Sparkle" is pulse or maximum capability of discharge for a short period of time. The one thing about Daly is that it is Chinese, and there is plenty lost during translation. I've chatted with the manufacturer (not a reseller or distributor), and while it took some back and forth, I eventually was rather confident in the product. I even learned that I'm better running a 4s4p bank off a single larger BMS rather than off 4 smaller BMS in parallel. Apparently, many BMS units do not like parallel configuration, which isn't unique to Daly.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

[SolarPoweredRV]

Haha, yes... "Sparkle" is pulse or maximum capability of discharge for a short period of time. The one thing about Daly is that it is Chinese, and there is plenty lost during translation. I've chatted with the manufacturer (not a reseller or distributor), and while it took some back and forth, I eventually was rather confident in the product. I even learned that I'm better running a 4s4p bank off a single larger BMS rather than off 4 smaller BMS in parallel. Apparently, many BMS units do not like parallel configuration, which isn't unique to Daly.

Full Timing Family
2021 Momentum 395MS-R
2021 Ford F450 King Ranch

Good Info from the manufacturer.

[xrated]

Where did you source all your battery parts from? I am considering going the Lithium route and looking at all my options at this point.

I would like to have a 200 ah battery

This is where the batteries came from. This company is Docan Technology based out of China and Hong Kong. They have a warehouse in Houston, TX and they receive there batteries from Docan in China. If the batteries are in stock in Houston, you will likely receive them in 4 or 5 day in the ConUS. The pricing is higher than what you see on their site for ordering their product from China, but the higher pricing includes shipping an no tax. You will have to pay a paypal fee is you use that method of payment. Ordering from China will sometimes be 2 or 3 months or longer for the product to arrive. So here is the link for where I bought mine... http://www.powerwholesale.net/usa-di...nk-p-3882.html

Here is another link that you should probably read also. I had nothing but great customer service from them and I contacted Jenny Wu to place my order. You can also find her at DIYsolarforums.com....she is a representative of Docan Tech.
http://www.powerwholesale.net/about_us.html

And this.... http://www.powerwholesale.net/faq_info.html?faqs_id=1