Axle Seal Leaking, Apparently My Turn

**CManley** · 06-03-2015, 05:48 PM

Yep,

I figured I would check one hub given all of the conversation on axle seal leaks as I did not want to report an accident traveling down HWY 50 from Lake Tahoe (Echo Summit 7300') at the end of the month. My findings were grease on the wrong side of the inner seal, it was leaking.

I estimate that the trailer has 2500 miles on it with the 2100 occurring in transport. We have had 3 short trips since picking it up 2 months ago. I am just as puzzled as others as to why something that is new would have this issue. Just like others my prior 13 year old trailer was always clean of grease, no seal failures.

Lippert simply says "take it to a service center for repairs and have them call before performing work". Now the challenge is finding a location that will do the work and hassle with the warranty. I have one place checking on the warranty process, the cost is $226 to repack bearings and replace seals which is not much for the hassle. The dealer is out of the question, I do not have the time to wait.

$35 in failed seals leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I do not buy into the theory that its vendors providing poor materials, in the end it says Grand Design on the side. I am good with the minor issues that are not safety related, this one is and not worth the chance.

**offtohavasu** · 06-04-2015, 09:37 AM

That's no fun having to deal with that. I do have to disagree a little with you about not buying in to the vendor. When GD receives the frame, axles, etc., they're brand new, shiny, and clean. Then everything gets assembled and out it goes. Unless you want GD to go out and put 2k -3k miles on each unit prior to delivery, then that's the only way it they can notice it on their end. It's my humble opinion that EVERY dealer should include brake/axle inspections on their PDI, prior to the customer's PDI. But given the attitude of dealers, we know how well that will play out. I think GD should start up their own dealerships. Then you'll see real results with service.

**CManley** · 06-04-2015, 10:22 AM

I now get the pleasure of defining what a seal leak/blow out is with Lippert; 1. Was it over filled at their factory. 2 Has it leaked or 3. Both. There should be a limited amount of grease on the spindle however I should not be able to fill up a rag. Lippert's stated policy is that they immediately warranty if grease has made its way to the brake shoes or magnet otherwise they see it as maintenance and not their problem. In any event seal maintenance/replacement at 2 months does not a quality product bring. If in the end its from overfilling at the factory stop doing it and you will see less inquiries.

My perspective is that a product is only as good as its weakest link, the product owner is responsible for the the entire package. If I have an issue with a vendor not only do i mitigate the active issues I am also responsible for managing the vendor to solve the current issue and instill sustained changes to their process. I am holding them contractually responsible. The customer looks toward me for resolution not my vendor. Any deflection to the vendor on my part will drive the customer away (bad taste in the mouth). The product design should consider what will occur with use. The question that as a buyer of anything does not know is too what level of error is the product design at 1 , 6 or somewhere in between.

I expect to see minor issues, there are a lot of parts that are pulled together into one. Any structural or as in my case safety challenges are not expected with any product one buys.

You are correct the dealer is the weakest link from sales to service. As I understand it for this product they selected the best dealers with a regional sales approach, bench strength maybe a problem. I was less than inspired by the used car sales approach and from a service perspective I have yet to see. A flag was raised from a service perspective as during PDI the Tech advised that we should list everything we see and bring it back in a few months for service as the Techs and the dealer like warranty work. Not sure why they didn't just fix the obvious warranty issues that they were OK delivering to me with. I am sure is it all profit driven, no point is using your $695 PDI fee to complete warranty work, bring it back so that we can charge again.

14 more days until vacation starts!!!!

**dhaile** · 06-06-2015, 05:28 PM

I just recently pulled all the wheels and hubs off my 355th that had less than 5k miles on it. All the seals were leaking bad and I had to repack all the bearings and replace all the seals. There must have been an issue at lippert because I have heard about too many newer units with this issue.

Steve and Lynne · 06-06-2015, 06:20 PM

I agree with the opinion that the unit manufacturer (Grand Design) is responsible for the whole package in a warranty context, including the Atwood components, Seat Tech furniture and mattress, and Lippert components. My first go-round with this issue was axle seals, as during a family visit in upstate New York I decided to repack bearings, which I figured was maintenance, owner responsibility. The removal of POUNDS of grease from the drums, brake shoes and backing plates was when I communicated with Grand Design. Their offer was to cover the products I used in the cleaning process, a gallon of diesel fuel and 6 cans of Brakleen. I felt this was pretty chintzy, so I didn't submit an invoice.

Other issues have been more agreeable. Company service replaced kitchen faucet, sent me a light fixture and two switches for the leveling jacks, as well as outstanding body work to rectify my driving error on the rear cap. We totally flattened the mattress in 11 months, and by sending pictures of the divots we got a check for $175.00 which covered half of a Denver Mattress memory foam replacement- very nice! We were just sent a replacement bathroom faucet. We also had to have a control board replaced in our Atwood furnace, and the refrigerator replace because of an ammonia-based refrigerant leak.

The biggest issue has just been handled. We travelled over 12,000 miles with good tire wear. The last leg from Dallas to Denver wore the inside edges of the rear tires down into the steel. No evidence of an impact to the axle, but the wheels were toed out 1 inch! Email correspondence with the company revealed that our 337 came with 5200 lb. axles from the factory. We were very pleased that GD committed to supply the correct complete 6000 lb. axles with springs and complete brake assemblies. They also sent 4 Westlake L rated tires which they will pay to mount and balance. These items were just done by Tarpley RV in Durango, CO- very courteous, professional and efficient! Nowhere close to what TucsonJim had to have done, but enough.

On all these items, my initial contact was Grand Design, and they referred me to Atwood for the refrigerator, and authorized and handled all the other stuff through two dealers, Tarpley in Durango, CO and McClain in Rockwall, TX.

**GDRV Service** · 06-08-2015, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by CManley

I now get the pleasure of defining what a seal leak/blow out is with Lippert; 1. Was it over filled at their factory. 2 Has it leaked or 3. Both. There should be a limited amount of grease on the spindle however I should not be able to fill up a rag. Lippert's stated policy is that they immediately warranty if grease has made its way to the brake shoes or magnet otherwise they see it as maintenance and not their problem. In any event seal maintenance/replacement at 2 months does not a quality product bring. If in the end its from overfilling at the factory stop doing it and you will see less inquiries.

My perspective is that a product is only as good as its weakest link, the product owner is responsible for the the entire package. If I have an issue with a vendor not only do i mitigate the active issues I am also responsible for managing the vendor to solve the current issue and instill sustained changes to their process. I am holding them contractually responsible. The customer looks toward me for resolution not my vendor. Any deflection to the vendor on my part will drive the customer away (bad taste in the mouth). The product design should consider what will occur with use. The question that as a buyer of anything does not know is too what level of error is the product design at 1 , 6 or somewhere in between.

I expect to see minor issues, there are a lot of parts that are pulled together into one. Any structural or as in my case safety challenges are not expected with any product one buys.

You are correct the dealer is the weakest link from sales to service. As I understand it for this product they selected the best dealers with a regional sales approach, bench strength maybe a problem. I was less than inspired by the used car sales approach and from a service perspective I have yet to see. A flag was raised from a service perspective as during PDI the Tech advised that we should list everything we see and bring it back in a few months for service as the Techs and the dealer like warranty work. Not sure why they didn't just fix the obvious warranty issues that they were OK delivering to me with. I am sure is it all profit driven, no point is using your $695 PDI fee to complete warranty work, bring it back so that we can charge again.

14 more days until vacation starts!!!!

Hi Chuck (@CManley),

I've taken the liberty of asking Ryan Prough, the Warranty Manager here at Grand Design RV, to contact you to discuss your concerns. Or if you prefer calling directly, Ryan and our Customer Support team can be reached at (574) 825-9679.

Best regards,
~ Janice

**Planehauler** · 06-10-2015, 03:01 PM

I've been reading all the post about the wheel seals so I just pulled the first wheel. And yes, the seal had leaked. The grease was only on the brake magnet and drum in that area, not on the brake shoes. The hub was full of grease because that's how it works if you use the grease fitting. Inspecting the seal doesn't really show a problem with the seal. It looks fine.
I my humble opinion there is no wheel seal that's going to withstand the pressure of a grease gun pushing grease through the inner bearing and back through the outer. These so called easy-lube hubs work great on a boat trailer with no brakes but, if you have brakes you run the risk of filling the drums with grease in all the wrong places.
I had a TT before buying the 303 and I only tried using the easy-lube once on one wheel. I could tell that it was pushing grease in the wrong direction so I pulled the hub. Sure enough it was going past the seal.
I don't know who filled my hubs with grease. It was either the factory, delivery guy, dealer or GD. It wasn't me. I've only done 3 trips since I drug it home from Utah.
I'm going to go get 4 seals, clean out all the excess grease, pack the bearings correctly and then do that once a year. I think everyone should have that done and stay away from the grease gun.