Towing a Momentum 395ms

**Overtaxed** · 09-12-2023, 05:36 PM

I noticed that most people who state their DRW truck is better than their previous SRW truck are comparing an F-250 SRW to an F-350/450 DRW. With that, I have a question for everyone who has posted here that their DRW truck is better than their previous SRW truck.

Is there anyone who can say they had an actual 1 ton SRW truck that they used within the towing limits and that switching to a DRW truck was better?

I'm not aware of anyone, but, honestly, my experience is pretty close to what you're asking. I had a 2019 F250 diesel with the high cap tow package. I'm not aware of any mechanical differences that matter for towing between a F250 (configured as mine was) and a 350 SRW. Perhaps there are some, it varies year by year, but they are pretty darn close to the same (except for the sticker, of course).

However, even if you don't accept them as the same, let's talk about "in spec" trailers behind both trucks. I have a bunch of trailers, a 7K landscape (conventional tow), a 14K dump trailer (gooseneck) and, of course the Grand Design 351M that eventually pushed me into the 450. The 450 is noticeably better with all those trailers. Even the little guy; it was a noticeable improvement to go from the 250 to the 450, and, of course, that trailer is WAY below capacity for both trucks.

Now, was the 250 dangerous or "bad" with the smaller trailers? No, not at all. But the 450 is better, and it's immediately noticeable, you'd be able to tell what truck you were in within a mile.

Maybe looking at it differently, duallies stink at almost everything you might want to do in a truck. Off road, they are terrible. Snow, mud; terrible. Commuting, just kill yourself now.

They have literally no advantage over a SRW truck except for one; towing. If they weren't better at towing, they would pretty much have no purpose in the world; they are specialist machines compared to a SRW, the darn well better be good at what they are supposed to do! And they are; but, for a lot of people, it doesn't matter or make sense, who cares if they are a little better if you're towing 1000 miles a year and commuting 12K a year in the truck, your primary use, a SRW will be much, much better.

**BobKilmer** · 09-12-2023, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Overtaxed

I'm not aware of anyone, but, honestly, my experience is pretty close to what you're asking. I had a 2019 F250 diesel with the high cap tow package. I'm not aware of any mechanical differences that matter for towing between a F250 (configured as mine was) and a 350 SRW. Perhaps there are some, it varies year by year, but they are pretty darn close to the same (except for the sticker, of course).

However, even if you don't accept them as the same, let's talk about "in spec" trailers behind both trucks. I have a bunch of trailers, a 7K landscape (conventional tow), a 14K dump trailer (gooseneck) and, of course the Grand Design 351M that eventually pushed me into the 450. The 450 is noticeably better with all those trailers. Even the little guy; it was a noticeable improvement to go from the 250 to the 450, and, of course, that trailer is WAY below capacity for both trucks.

Now, was the 250 dangerous or "bad" with the smaller trailers? No, not at all. But the 450 is better, and it's immediately noticeable, you'd be able to tell what truck you were in within a mile.

Maybe looking at it differently, duallies stink at almost everything you might want to do in a truck. Off road, they are terrible. Snow, mud; terrible. Commuting, just kill yourself now.

They have literally no advantage over a SRW truck except for one; towing. If they weren't better at towing, they would pretty much have no purpose in the world; they are specialist machines compared to a SRW, the darn well better be good at what they are supposed to do! And they are; but, for a lot of people, it doesn't matter or make sense, who cares if they are a little better if you're towing 1000 miles a year and commuting 12K a year in the truck, your primary use, a SRW will be much, much better.

I don't agree that an F-250 diesel is basically equivalent to an F-350 diesel. The F-250 has a significantly lower rear axle rating and maximum payload. That is why I asked if anyone had experience with a 1 ton SRW and a 1 ton DRW.

Out of curiosity, did you take the F-250/351M combination to a CAT scale to see if you were within your towing limits?

**Overtaxed** · 09-13-2023, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by BobKilmer

I don't agree that an F-250 diesel is basically equivalent to an F-350 diesel. The F-250 has a significantly lower rear axle rating and maximum payload. That is why I asked if anyone had experience with a 1 ton SRW and a 1 ton DRW.

Out of curiosity, did you take the F-250/351M combination to a CAT scale to see if you were within your towing limits?

I did scale it, empty and loaded. I was over the "Yellow sticker", under the "White sticker". Depends which you are calling your "towing limits", but I was under on the areas that mattered to me, RAWR and the tires. The 351M was almost exactly 3K on the pin when ready to travel, I had a little margin left on the white stickers. Looking up the axle in my truck, I was way under it's rated capacity, under on tires based on the inflation charts for the them (at 80PSI, IIRC), and under on both RAWR and FAWR as given on the white sticker (which IIRC, was actually also derated by the tires, they don't specify full inflation for a F250, so the white sticker was showing the lower carrying capacity of the tires at whatever inflation value they specified).

I never scaled any of my other trailers, but I know I was between "under" and "way under" capacity towing them with the 250. My dump trailer was the most different between the 250 and 450 (other than the RV, of course), but that trailer isn't that heavy on the pin, depending on how it's loaded, it can actually be really light on the pin, so I know it wasn't over capacity for the 250.

**BobKilmer** · 09-13-2023, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Overtaxed

I did scale it, empty and loaded. I was over the "Yellow sticker", under the "White sticker". Depends which you are calling your "towing limits", but I was under on the areas that mattered to me, RAWR and the tires. The 351M was almost exactly 3K on the pin when ready to travel, I had a little margin left on the white stickers. Looking up the axle in my truck, I was way under it's rated capacity, under on tires based on the inflation charts for the them (at 80PSI, IIRC), and under on both RAWR and FAWR as given on the white sticker (which IIRC, was actually also derated by the tires, they don't specify full inflation for a F250, so the white sticker was showing the lower carrying capacity of the tires at whatever inflation value they specified).

I never scaled any of my other trailers, but I know I was between "under" and "way under" capacity towing them with the 250. My dump trailer was the most different between the 250 and 450 (other than the RV, of course), but that trailer isn't that heavy on the pin, depending on how it's loaded, it can actually be really light on the pin, so I know it wasn't over capacity for the 250.

I consider all of the limits on both the truck and the trailer as the towing limits. Some are more concerning than others, such as RAWR, but going over any of the limits has the potential to provide degraded towing performance.

This is why I asked about comparing a 1 ton SRW to a 1 ton DRW. Comparing the towing performance a 3/4 ton SRW configuration that is over the towing limits to a 1 ton DRW is not a valid comparison of SRW vs DRW performance,

**Overtaxed** · 09-13-2023, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by BobKilmer

I consider all of the limits on both the truck and the trailer as the towing limits. Some are more concerning than others, such as RAWR, but going over any of the limits has the potential to provide degraded towing performance.

This is why I asked about comparing a 1 ton SRW to a 1 ton DRW. Comparing the towing performance a 3/4 ton SRW configuration that is over the towing limits to a 1 ton DRW is not a valid comparison of SRW vs DRW performance,

Yeah, I'd agree with that, which is why I think the more interesting comparison is towing something light, way under the limit (my 7K landscape trailer) with both trucks vs the my 351M. The 7K trailer, while the 250 towed if just fine, the 450 is significantly better. Was the 250 unsafe or out of control with that trailer? No, not at all. But you wouldn't make it far in a blind "drive test" (I'd like to know exactly how to do that?!) before you knew if you were in the 250 or 450. And my dump trailer, again, well within the limits for the 250, is even more stark (it's much heavier, of course). But none were as dramatic as the 351M, the change from the 250 to the 450, you'd have to be drunk to not know within 100 yards which truck you were in.