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  1. #1
    Davidki
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    Trying to mke a decession, need an expert on Tow Vehicle Specs and Revolution 29RS

    Let me start this by saying Hello from the Nashville Tennessee area.. My wife and I are trying to make a big decision on what to do next as an RV and have heard good reports on the Grand Design Reflection 29RS, I think we even saw one at the last Nashville RV show. We currently are towing a Jayco TT that has a dry weight of about 6700 lbs dry... I"m guessing we add less than 500lbs in gear when we got out for 3 or 4 days. Our TT is a 26' inside, about 28' from front of hitch to the rear bumper. We think the 29RS is a good upgrade to a 5th wheel with about 32' over all length it really isn't that much larger than what we are pulling now (yes, we have a TT now, going to 5th wheel possibly)... Now for my delima/question:

    My Tow Vehicle is a 2007 (new body style) GMC Sierra Crew Cab 2500hd 6.5' box (standard) with the factory tow package and the Vortec 6.0L gas engine. We have the factory brake controller. The truck only has 8500 miles on it so I really can't see changing it at this time it has been kept in the garage and runs great... I know that a diesel for most folks is a better opton but we do not drive that much and only use the truck to either tow our TT or other uses around our small farm.. I can not justify trading it in to pay another $40 or $50,000 for a diesel and then upgrade the TT to the 5th wheel it just does not make sense in many ways.... So Please, can we keep this focused on a "Gas" Tow Vehicle rather than a diesel, please....

    In 2007 GMC/Chev changed from the old Sierra design to the new body style... at that point my truck has 9200 lb GVWR. we have the 373 rear end, 2wd. The payload of the truck is just about 3400 lbs. The documentation on the 2007 new body with the 373 I believe is max at 12,500 lbs but I'm just going from the book... There is no information on 5th wheel towing or weights, I even found and downloaded the "Trailer LIfe" 2007 tow information and under the truck the 5th wheel category says TBD but I've tired everything even sitting on the phone with GMC customer service and they essentially have no idea. My next idea is to go to a local dealer and find one that is even close to what we are looking for with options and look at the "Yellow Sticker with the as built at the factory" weight for a specific weight.... (the brochure shows a min ulw is 8356lbs). So, I"m looking at a 2,000 lb increase from what we have to go to the 29RS and the weight of the 5th wheel hitch.

    It looks like the 2008 and above have upped the tow capacities of their trucks but I'm not ready to trade a truck with 8500 miles on it. So, given what tow vehicle I have is the 29RS going to be too much to handle? I realize that hills are my issue (it is now even with the TT we have)... I am told that the Vortec should be able to handle it (as it gobbles up gas) and the 6 speed transmission with the Tow Haul mode and towing package. I would like to know if anyone on here has the 29RS with a similar "GAS" tow vehicle "Gas" and if there is anyone out here with the specs on our truck for towing? I do not want to make the change and find out it really is too big for our truck ... for all the reasons listed above. Someone somewhere has to have the factory info on this truck and what happens if we pul a GD...

    This is getting way to long If there are other out there with the same situation I'd love to hear them.. If I can get the real specs on our truck I"l feel a lot better other than teh sales guy just saying I can to anything with our truck... I want specifics.. so if someone can help I"d appreciate it..

    Guess that's about it for my first post.. I look forward to your replies..

    Thanks so much in advance.
    Dave


    PS what are any changes from 2015 to the 2016 model, Is it worrth to consider a 2014.. I see them on other dealers lots..
    Last edited by Davidki; 06-20-2015 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Corrected Model name

  2. #2
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    Short answer to a long question . . . at 3400 lb payload, you have more than enough truck to haul a Reflection (Revolution?) 29RS. Does anybody disagree ??

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  3. #3
    Site Sponsor
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    If they disagree, don't worry. We pull a 303 in the Pacific North West with 1/2 ton GMC. We all just have to remember no matter what tow vehicle we have, we have to remember we are pulling a trailer. Different tow vehicle require different adjustments to driving depending on load behind them!
    Becky, BoBo and Mike
    2015 Solitude 369RL
    2020 GMC 2500 Duramax
    Anderson Ultimate 5th wheel hitch

  4. #4
    Seasoned Camper TahoeTrekker's Avatar
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    Buy it...tow it..... have fun!
    Brian and Paula- Truckee, CA
    2015 Reflection 303
    2017 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L Cummings Turbo, Aisin HD Transmission
    B&W Companion Slider, Firestone Air Bags, Compressor with wireless remote

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Seasoned Camper
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    We're towing with a 2015 Silverado 25000hd 4x4 with the 6.0 and 4.11 gears. Getting around 9 mpg and have no problem with it pulling our 303. I've talked to some other people that are towing with diesels and have been told that they're getting around 12 mpg. As far as comparing the 3.73 to the 4.11 I don't know what difference that's going to make. With the low mileage you have I would definitely not be looking to change trucks. I can't remember what truck magazine did the article but they put the 2015 Chevy 2500hd gas up against the diesel. The thing that caught my eye was that you'd have to go over 100,000 miles before you hit the break even point on gas vs diesel due to cost difference between the two.
    Tommy & Elaine Thornton
    Manassas, VA
    2015 Chevy 2500HD Z-71 6.0 crew cab short bed
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Rolling Along dloase's Avatar
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    I towed my Sandpiper 345RET with my 2004 2500HD. 6 liter gas with a 4:10 rear. I wouldn't want to tow my Solitude with it but a reflection - no fear.
    David & Linda - Plainview, VA
    2008 3500HD CrewCab DRW
    2014 369RL #258
    2007 Solstice
    2008 TrailBlazer
    2016 Kia Sorento
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Davidki
    Guest
    First off, thanks for replying to my post... sorry about the model name mistake, it is the Reflection 29RS that we are thinking about. IF the brochure is correct both the 27RL and the 29rs are exactly the same length and is only 300 lbs different in weight, we like the 29RS with it's outside entertainment center and the sink in the island in the coach.

    When GMC changed in 2007 from the older body style to the new there was not any real specs or reviews on towing. From what I see, the older classic Sierra actually had more tow capacity from the get go, but I imagine going to the new style they may have picked up some weight. In 2008 they increased the GVRW from what I could fine and now they have really increased it to keep up with Ford. It has been extremely difficult to get any info from GM, every time you call they just pull out the old brochure and refer to that (which has really no tow or 5th wheel info) the sticker in the car only give me the GVWR 9200 lbs and the payload of about 3400. I think the actual weight of the vehicle dry is about 6500 lbs. There is definitely a tow capacity difference between the 373 and 411 rear end and from 2008 on I can find that info but for 2007 I can't find it. But, I"m pretty sure I have seen it reported somewhere that it can tow up to 12,500 lbs and that is a bumper pull, but there is nothing written on the 5th wheel.. and I see in mosts magazines that the difference between the bp and the 5th wheel is 1500 to 2000 lb more so, I'd be safe to assume 13,500 lb.

    With a 6.6' bed I am told with this 5th wheel that I would not need a slider hitch that a standard fixed hitch will work and I'm thinking of getting 16,000 lb hitch if we go this way the difference in cost of the 12k vs the 16k is peanuts but the 16k looks much more heavy duty.

    I have also read that the new diesels are getting much lower MPG than before because all the emissions... I've figure on mpg as a rule of thumb... but that isn't that bad because I think our truck with our current tt is only getting about 10mpg. What is disappointing is that GMC only put in a 26 gallon tank.. heck my old Suburban had a 42 gallon... guess it means I'll just have to watch the gauge a bit closer and make more pit stops along the way.... I've carried 5 gallon back up can in the truck bed for safety and just in case and lucky I did, we had to use it on a trip last year one time. I hve been using the mid grade fuel vs the lower grade and I am not sure if it really matters on MPG, I was told that the truck's computer adjusts for theh difference in Octane but for some reason when I had to use the lower octane the truck didn't seem to have as much power... anyone else tried a higher octane?

    As for the AC system, the standard is 1 unit.. but if that unit is ducted AC and cool the bedroom at night then it would be much quieter than putting a second air in the bedroom I'd think... Or is it a good idea to just get the 2nd air installed when ordering it? Ive seen some of the new MH AC systems and they are quiet and handle their ducted ports very interesting where one side is supply and the other is return which really makes the air flow better in the coach... anyone know how the air in the Reflection is handled? We live in Tennessee and 90 % of our trips will be in a 200 to 400 mile radius.

    Finally, does Grand Design have a build sheet that anyone know of? what I like about Jayco site you can actually "Build" your trailer from scratch and add options... I'd like to see the optinons and prices before going to the dealer it just gives a good reference of what the different costs are... List price is fine, but, right now I am guessing at what we want to add and I have no idea what that does to the price or weight.

    Sorry for being so long winded, but I figure I'd best explain what my thoughts and questions are with as much detail I can give so I am clear in what I am asking... but it does make it a bit long..

    Thanks again for all the input, I really appreciate every comment because I've never towed a 5th wheel I've always towed bumper pull boats, horse trailers, utility trailers and now our Jayco TT for the last 3 years... and any comment or help you can give us we sure appreciate it..

    Dave

  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper smkunder's Avatar
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    Just got a 27 RL my self and pull it just fine with 2500 HD 6.0 L 410 rear axle. Fuel mileage is terrible but that goes with the territory. You will be just fine, so enjoy. I also have the 6.5 foot bed and I use the slider hitch. Just a bit of extra insurance.
    Steve & Bunny
    Michigan
    2015 Grand Design Reflection 27RL
    2015 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD 6.0

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    AC:
    The ducting is for the pressure side only. The intake is at the unit itself. We are comfortable with the one rear unit (been up to about 90 F) and the ducting does bring a reasonable air flow to the bedroom. You have to get the AC going relatively early in the day to keep things cool. If you are going to summer camp in the southern US . . . I think you would want the second AC. Several have commented on this forum that the low profile units often selected for the front are not as quiet as the standard Atwood.

    Selecting Options:
    Grand Design builds with very few. All interiors are the same. Dual pane windows and 2nd AC are the only options I can think of.
    There has been discussion of optional 16" wheels (standard is 15") and upgraded tires, but I think this is usually something arranged by the selling dealer.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  10. #10
    Fireside Member Centurion's Avatar
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    Hi Dave, I picked up a 27RL last month after looking and searching for a fifth wheel trailer for a couple of years. In the past I had a 27 foot travel trailer and couldnt wait to get rid of it. It was a thrill a minute when a tractor trailer would pass and the trailer would rock and sway. Not so with the fifth wheel! I was surprised how easy it towed, as a matter of fact, my wife is comfortable towing it.
    As I read your posting, it looks like one of your concerns is the payload capability of you truck. Read up on the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR), Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR), and Gross Vehicle Weight, (GVW). From there you can determine your payload capacity. This is from an earlier post of mine:
    (You may want to check the manufacturers plate on the door for the GVWR and the front and rear GAWR. Then go to a scale and weigh your truck. You will get a slip with the steer axle weight, the drive axle weight and the gross weight of the truck. After you have that information you can intelligently figure out your trucks payload capacity and compare that to your trailers pin weight when loaded. Adding springs or airbags does not increase the Gross Axle Weight Rating or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. It only helps carrying the load. Overloading your trucks axle weight rating is asking for trouble.)
    I too have a short bed truck and rather than risk truck/trailer clearance issues when maneuvering, I went for an automatic slider hitch. I just wanted to keep it simple without having to get out of the truck, pull a lever, get back in the truck, pull forward, maneuver, get out, pull a lever, etc.
    The only modifications I made so far was to replace the vent in the kitchen area with a Fan-Tastic remote control power fan and the vent in the bedroom with a Fan-Tastic power fan that could reverse to bring fresh air in because there is only one window there.
    As far as prior models of the 27RL, my 2015 was built December 2014. I noticed the changes in the windows, my dining area window slides where older ones open horizontally about a quarter of the way up, the sink in mine is double stainless steel, where older ones I believe are single tub design.
    I'm still in the honeymoon phase and I expect some things may need adjustment or repair. That's my outlook. I would suggest buying from a reputable dealer that is not clear across the country just to save a couple of dollars. If you do, and need warranty or other repairs, the local dealer, that you avoided at sale time, may not be as receptive as you wish.
    Finally, I find the GD Owners Forum to be a wealth of information from members who share their knowledge and experiences and I'm sure you will too. Its always good reading.
    Jim
    Susan and Jim
    2015 Reflection 27RL
    2013 Ford F350 Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 SRW
    PullRite Superglide 16K Hitch
    Timbren SES

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