Lithium Ion Batteries

[Redapple63]

I want to throw a general question out there regarding the Lifepo4 batts. Everyone talks about protecting them from the cold to prevent cold temp charging, but what about really hot temps. Where I keep my rig in the summer daily is above 100 devs, while inside can be 120 ish without ac. I hear issue with hot temp too. Is there some kind of protocol for high temps?

Bill

[WondersAwait]

It's best to check the operating temp specs on the exact batteries you have or want to run, but generally from my admittedly short research when concerned about that the operating Temps for LiFePO4 are roughly 0 to 140 F. I know the Lions I have are specced -4 to 131 F.

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[ajg617]

I want to throw a general question out there regarding the Lifepo4 batts. Everyone talks about protecting them from the cold to prevent cold temp charging, but what about really hot temps. Where I keep my rig in the summer daily is above 100 devs, while inside can be 120 ish without ac. I hear issue with hot temp too. Is there some kind of protocol for high temps?

Bill

That's a really good question - always thought about the cold temps and not hot but I know hot temps are brutal on LA. Just looked at the Battleborn spec sheet and 135 is the operating max. No charge or discharge above.

[ajg617]

Thank You All for the great advice & help....Think I'm going with the BB battery & PD converter.

Just a caution - think hard about the heated vs. non-heated batteries. I'll be the first to admit I made a mistake ordering the BB unheated ones. That was driven by temps going down to -14F this past winter and I figured I'd be pulling the batteries out. That was pretty low for our area but exceeded the damage threshhold of -10F that BB techs told me to be aware of. We don't get those temps every year. The heating blankets are not cheap and it would have been more cost effective to buy the heated batteries from the get go - about $100 more for the battery and I think each heating blanket is $249 or so. In really cold temps, I would augment heat in the compartment to not have to remove them in the winter.

[xrated]

Just a caution - think hard about the heated vs. non-heated batteries. I'll be the first to admit I made a mistake ordering the BB unheated ones. That was driven by temps going down to -14F this past winter and I figured I'd be pulling the batteries out. That was pretty low for our area but exceeded the damage threshhold of -10F that BB techs told me to be aware of. We don't get those temps every year. The heating blankets are not cheap and it would have been more cost effective to buy the heated batteries from the get go - about $100 more for the battery and I think each heating blanket is $249 or so. In really cold temps, I would augment heat in the compartment to not have to remove them in the winter.

Or, you could do like I did and build a heated battery box. Mine is obviously built for one battery that I built, but could have been built for two batteries...or more. I have four 7.5W 12VDC pads in there and they are controlled by a digital temperature controller that I bought on Amazon. Yes, it was a bit of work to build, but it should take care of any cold weather encounters that I might have....Oh, and it is insulated too...all four sides, bottom and top.

Two pads on each side of the battery


Digital controller is mounted inside of the gray plastic box with a thermal sensor embedded between battery cell #2 and #3 for a more accurate temperature reading.

[TimtheToolMan]

It's best to check the operating temp specs on the exact batteries you have or want to run, but generally from my admittedly short research when concerned about that the operating Temps for LiFePO4 are roughly 0 to 140 F. I know the Lions I have are specced -4 to 131 F.

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk

Operating range is one thing but what about reduced life at high temperatures? Does anyone have any test data to show impact on LiFePO4 battery longevity when used or stored at higher temperatures? Also what about longevity when stored at full charge?

From intercel.ed : Battery life is reduced at higher temperatures – for every 15 degrees F over 77, battery life is cut in half. This holds true for ANY type of lead-acid battery, whether sealed, Gel, AGM, industrial or whatever.

As far as Lithium ion (not LiFePO4) Failing to adhere to the recommended storage temperature can permanently damage the capacity of lithium ion batteries. For example, a battery stored at 104°F (40°C) for 1-year will only retain 85% of its original capacity, while a battery stored at 77°F (25°C) will retain 96% of its capacity. It is also important to store batteries at the optimum charge level of 40%. Storing lithium ion batteries fully charged accelerates the loss of capacity. A fully charged battery stored at 104°F (40°C) will lose 35% of its capacity in only 3 months.

I did find this after my above post: https://www.canbat.com/how-to-store-lifepo4-batteries/

HOW TO STORE LIFEPO4 BATTERIES?
How do I store my lithium battery? A question we receive from our customers on a daily basis, especially in the Winter season. The answer depends on the temperature you are storing the batteries in and the period of time. Here’s a summary of how to store your LiFePO4 battery:

Recommended storage temperature: -5 to +35°C (23 to 95 °F)
Storage up to 1 month: -20 to +60°C (4 to 140 °F)
Storage up to 3 month: -10 to +35°C (14 to 95 °F)
Extended storage time: +15 to +35°C (59 to 95 °F)
It is highly recommended to store lithium batteries indoors during the off-season. It is also recommended to store LiFePO4 batteries at about a 50% state of charge (SOC) or higher. If batteries are stored for long periods of time, cycle the batteries at least once every 6 months. Do not store batteries that are discharged.

[Conner58]

We have SOK 206 amp hr batteries 6 of them dry camp only . They been great !

[Soundsailor]

We have 4 200 Ah Lossigy LiFePo4 batteries. Like @xrated I built a heated battery box with insulation. They have performed really well so far (Will Prowse did a tear-down of these in one of his videos and it met his requirements). After a recent four-day trip in the woods (little or no solar), we finished with 50 Ah to spare. This was running everything off battery power including a 12-volt refrigerator, 3000-watt inverter, and everything else.

As far as hot weather, most BMS (battery management systems) have high-temperature protection built-in.

[ajg617]

It is also important to store batteries at the optimum charge level of 40%. Storing lithium ion batteries fully charged accelerates the loss of capacity.

This is directly from my BattleBorn document:
"We recommend bringing the Battle Born batteries to a 100% state of charge. Then, disconnect the
battery from any loads by removing the negative cable from one battery. On average, the batteries lose approximately 2-3% capacity per month. This is subject to increasing if stored in extreme environmental conditions."

I wonder why the difference? Just re-read your post and saw the Lithium Ion reference as opposed to LiFePO4. Still, the storage charge range is interesting.

[xrated]

This is directly from my BattleBorn document:
"We recommend bringing the Battle Born batteries to a 100% state of charge. Then, disconnect the
battery from any loads by removing the negative cable from one battery. On average, the batteries lose approximately 2-3% capacity per month. This is subject to increasing if stored in extreme environmental conditions."

I wonder why the difference? Just re-read your post and saw the Lithium Ion reference as opposed to LiFePO4. Still, the storage charge range is interesting.

My guess is that they want to sell you some more batteries sooner, rather than later when they fail prematurely because of being stored at full 100% SOC.