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  1. #161
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    I'll have to admit that I too wondered how you could move that leaf spring back and forth and up and down when there's so much weight on it. There's no way I could do that on my trailer. Could with the weight off the springs, but not if the trailer weight is resting on the tires.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by goducks14 View Post
    Wet bolts need to be installed so the holes are at 9:00 and 3:00 to allow grease to enter.
    I'm planning on replacing my brass bushings in a month or so simply because I have about 16,000 miles on them and I've only been able to get grease to pump in a few of them.
    I'm going to test pump each bolt.
    I've done two sets of wet bolts, and had to ream the bushings on several spring eyes after pressing them in. I can't believe I'm the only person to have had the bushings compress upon installation. If there isn't enough clearance, there's no way grease is going to get into the bushing. How many people have actually reamed the bushing after installation?
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by dryfly View Post
    I'm not an engineer but I feel they are a terrible design. How could the one small hole that emits the grease, considering the weight on the top of the bushing, dispense lubrication all over the bushing surface.

    It seems if there were small channels spiraling the bushing, a path for the grease when pumped in, more area would be lubricated.

    @Overtaxed, how can you feel play in the springs with the weight of the trailer on them? Replacing or frequently checking them wouldn't be that big of a deal but I've done it and it's not a easy job as you know.


    It's a terrible design. I live on a farm and have a lot of heavy equipment, there are tons of joints like the spring hanger to spring eye connection on things like tractors/backhoes/etc. They are all done the same way, hard to hard. You'll have a pin that is hard steel riding in a sleeve that's also hard steel. They'll have zerks that need grease regularly; if you don't grease, hope you know a welder, because it's going to tear apart and big a big/expensive job. If you do grease, those connections will last 1000's of hours, many of them the lifetime of the machine.

    The springs are a hard/soft connection. The wet bolt is hardened steel into a soft (brass) bushing. Making matters worse, the hole for the bushing isn't perfectly round, so it'll deform. It's a terrible design. A much better configuration would be to put bearings into the sleeve, capture the bearing race with the spring and have the pin go into a perfectly round (and hard) hole. A better configuration would just be to go hard/hard, have a hardened bushing and a hardened pin, rely on grease to keep them apart. I'm not sure that any amount of grease will actually stop the premature wear, all you can hope for is to slow it down.

    Mine was so bad that I could push the springs around with the tires on them. So, if I was on the camp side of the trailer and pushed the spring (at the hanger) towards the other side of the trailer, I could feel the slop in there. The bushing disintegrated on several of mine; so there was probably a solid 1/8th to 1/4in of play, enough to both see and feel when you put sideways pressure on it. Again, much easier to see with the wheels off the ground, but I actually found it at a rest stop when I was doing my inspection mid-tow. Pushed on the spring and it moved, that's not supposed to happen!

    I'm planning on replacing my brass bushings in a month or so simply because I have about 16,000 miles on them and I've only been able to get grease to pump in a few of them.
    Well, if my experience is any guide, at least you won't have to push the old bushings out. 16K miles with some of the joints not taking grease? You might not have any evidence that there actually WAS a bushing in there, it's likely disintegrated!

    Here are some pictures, my springs were flat, so I replaced the entire system basically, springs, shackles, bushings, etc. It wasn't a terrible job, just messy and time consuming.

    https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...-on-a-2019-377

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    I've done two sets of wet bolts, and had to ream the bushings on several spring eyes after pressing them in. I can't believe I'm the only person to have had the bushings compress upon installation. If there isn't enough clearance, there's no way grease is going to get into the bushing. How many people have actually reamed the bushing after installation?
    I didn't have to ream mine out, but that's probably because of how I got them in. I used the wet bolt and a hydraulic press to put the bushings in, with the wet bolt as a "guide" everything went in easily after it was pressed into place. If you don't have a press, given the bushings are so soft, I'm not sure how you'd get them in there without deforming them a bit.

  5. #165
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    Since you never used a reamer, you don't really know if you needed to. But it's very unusual, especially considering how out-of-round the spring eyes are, to press in a soft bushing and not need to ream it so it is the correct size. And using a wet bolt as a pilot will not prevent the busing from closing up. It's just the nature of the beast. I did this kind of stuff for 30 years and we reamed every bushing we installed. Just SOP.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    Since you never used a reamer, you don't really know if you needed to. But it's very unusual, especially considering how out-of-round the spring eyes are, to press in a soft bushing and not need to ream it so it is the correct size. And using a wet bolt as a pilot will not prevent the busing from closing up. It's just the nature of the beast. I did this kind of stuff for 30 years and we reamed every bushing we installed. Just SOP.
    Sounds like I need more tools.. Thanks Hoopy, thanks for nothing!

    All I can report, after pressing, the bolt moved freely in the brass bushing, no binding and no rough spots. I just wish there was option other than "soft bushing", it really does feel to me like this is more akin to a backhoe where we should have a chrome/hard to chrome connection with grease. Or, even crazier, a bearing!

  7. #167
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    "Sounds like I need more tools.. Thanks Hoopy, thanks for nothing!"

    Always glad to help, but reamers aren't exceptionally expensive

    The main issue with the whole setup is the basic lack of complete rotational movement of the bushing around the bolt. There's simply not enough movement to move the grease around, so consequently you are going to have steel on brass friction with little to no lube. Not a good thing. A good set of needle bearings would be the way to go, but there simply isn't room enough for a bearing that could handle the weight.

    As someone mentioned spiral grooves would be a better way to disperse the grease, but then you give up bushing load area, with no actual benefit. The grease is still going to follow the path of least resistance. If that path is directly out the bushing, then it's not much better than not greasing in the first place. Kind of damned it you do and damned it you don't.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    I've done two sets of wet bolts, and had to ream the bushings on several spring eyes after pressing them in. I can't believe I'm the only person to have had the bushings compress upon installation. If there isn't enough clearance, there's no way grease is going to get into the bushing. How many people have actually reamed the bushing after installation?
    I've only done the one trailer so far but it was basically new so perhaps didn't have a chance for things to wear or compress too badly. Some actually went in by hand and others I just used a large C-clamp or light tapping with a hammer. The nylon bushings were shot but there wasn't too much evidence of wearing metal to metal yet. I'll be doing the new trailer before it hits the road again so the only mileage on this one will be delivery to the dealership and then me driving it home. Should go pretty easy. I'll also be putting shocks on it so I'm hoping that will help save the wear on the rest of the suspension.
    Chad
    2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    Since you never used a reamer, you don't really know if you needed to. But it's very unusual, especially considering how out-of-round the spring eyes are, to press in a soft bushing and not need to ream it so it is the correct size. And using a wet bolt as a pilot will not prevent the busing from closing up. It's just the nature of the beast. I did this kind of stuff for 30 years and we reamed every bushing we installed. Just SOP.
    Now you have me confused. So if the bushing goes into the spring fairly easily and the bolt goes into the bushing fairly easily, are you saying you still need to ream the spring?
    Chad
    2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
    2022 F350 6.7L Superduty, Carbonized Gray, Ultimate Lariat Pkg, 4WD, Crew Cab, 160" Wheelbase, 3.55EL Rear End, 3566# Payload
    Adaptive Steering, Ultimate Camera Pkg, 20" Wheels, 397 Amp Dual Alternator, ARE Topper (Replaced 2004 F150)

  10. #170
    Site Sponsor ajg617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    The grease is still going to follow the path of least resistance. If that path is directly out the bushing, then it's not much better than not greasing in the first place.
    So when greasing, is grease coming out the opposite end (a lot and quickly) of the zerk symptomatic of bushings that are shot? Using my deWalt, I was amazed at the amount that came out wheel side - except for one.
    Robin & John
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin, 55gal Titan
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