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09-02-2022, 01:18 PM #11
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Low discharge rate over a long period of time with low energy density at this point. Other than the University of Bristol claim of a prototype in 2016, there are no known functional prototypes at this time. I'm not sure it's going to be useful for our purposes in its current state and I wouldn't hold my breath for when it may become available - if at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamon...stol_prototype
Interestingly, there is an almost-identical discussion going on over on the Escapees forum right now (and I did not start it).
RobU.S. Army Retired
2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
(Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
Full time since 08/2015
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09-02-2022, 01:30 PM #12
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The only problem with this argument is that Oil is no less devastating to the environment (Exxon Valdez, Deep Water Horizon).
EV batteries only contain around 10% Lithium and there are better (more environmentally friendly) ways to produce Lithium being tested and proven right now. Most of the worlds Lithium supply comes from salt brines in Chile.
More EVs are being powered by Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. Iron and Phosphate are abundant minerals everywhere around the world.
Eventually, almost all the EV batteries will be recycled reducing the need for mining new materials (Redwood Materials and LiCycle are just two Lithium recycling companies with operations in the US).
As far as "Where everything else" that it takes to build an electric car comes from? The same places the materials to build the Internal Combustion Engine vehicles come from now.Last edited by SolarPoweredRV; 09-02-2022 at 01:34 PM.
David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-03-2022, 09:50 AM #13
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Australia produces about 46% of the Lithium and Chile produces half of that. Just saying.
Without a doubt, there is no free lunch and none of us can change what will happen. We can only hope that someone comes up with a product that is cheap and easy on the world. Sadly, I do not think that will ever happen any time soon.
I read somewhere that the Voyager probe is working on some type of radiation battery/generator and it's been almost 50 years still producing something. Not much, but something. Pretty impressive considering that probe should not really be working.
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09-03-2022, 01:23 PM #14
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The Exxon Valdez was an accident. Hard to use that as an example
I would hate to see the impact of an explosion inside of a battery plant as well
The mine in Australia is the largest supplier and it is devastating to the area
And yes ICE vehicles depend on the oil industry but EVs do equally as much
Who is going to bother with the oil industry though once the ICE is outlawed? IMO no one and those that do will want to make money.
The future of EVs imo is bleak and only for the extremely rich2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew 1840lb payload
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09-08-2022, 12:27 PM #15
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The bigger picture for the RV community is that there is no viable electric truck replacement for towing at this time unless we all want to trade down to Rpods. The Ford f-150 ev has proven to be a dismal failure at towing moderate weight. I can't even imagine how ev tow vehicles could achieve parity with tow capacity and range of diesel and gas trucks. Boondocking would be a challenge with no recharging, unless you have massive solar arrays. Electricity use in campgrounds would have to be upgraded to 50 amp minimum, full hookup. Many other considerations as well. I think the bottom line is that the RV lifestyle will be discouraged and quite possibly forced out of existence if the trend of ev's and disappearing fossil fuel stations prevail. I think we RV'ers will be caught in the middle where the rush to force technology before its time, may create a crunch on our passion for traveling and independence.
Alan and Paula
2019 Reflection 303 RLS, 2004 Dodge 3500 5.9L
Magnum 2k watt inverter-charger, 300 AH Battle Born battery bank, 560 watt solar power. 6K axles and disc brakes. Pepwave max transit cellular router.
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09-08-2022, 12:36 PM #16
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Fortunately, I will be long gone before this happens. At least too old to tow or even drive a large RV.
In the mean time, there are plenty of good camping days left. I'm going to go start up the electrical fireplace so I can enjoy a good fire.
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09-08-2022, 04:21 PM #17
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It's a physics problem. You need a motor that is light enough to turn X number of RPMs and produce Y amount of torque at 24, 36, or 48 VDC and a "reasonable" amount of amperage, say 400 amps. Today's battery technology can't provide that kind of amperage at that voltage for a sustained period of time.
As the torque required increases, so does the required amperage. The higher the amperage, the faster the draw on the battery.
Personally, I'm impressed that Ford gets half of the distance when towing.
These increases with come in spurts, until there is a breakthrough that is cost effective. There is technology out there today that, in proof-of-concept, will do this, BUT the cost to manufacturer, or upscale this technology, would make the cost of an electric truck way out of reach for everyone.Mark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
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09-08-2022, 09:51 PM #18
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Most EV architecture is either 400 volts or 800 volts.
The technology exists today to create a heavy duty pickup that is capable of towing our rather large RVs. For example: The Tesla Semi can haul 80,000 lbs for 500 miles on a full charge (the tractor weighs around 35k and the load is ~ 45k).
The thing that really reduces range when towing is the increased wind resistance that comes from hauling a Big o'l Box behind us and traveling at highway speeds. If we could drive at 30 mph all the way to our campsite, we might only loose 20% of the truck's rated range.
Heavy Duty trucks will come, whether from the current manufacturers, or from a newcomer, they will eventually become available with decent enough range.David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-08-2022, 10:51 PM #19
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Very interesting video, thanks Rob!
If my math is right ..
diesel fuel energy density = 7,663 watt-hours/kilogram
lithium ion battery energy density = 270 watt-hours/kilogram
I think I'll be waiting awhile for that EV TV.Last edited by jjbbrewer; 09-08-2022 at 10:56 PM.
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09-09-2022, 01:19 AM #20
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Mark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
Charging Lithium Batteries From...
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