Electric F-150 Lightning -- Our Weekend Test Drive

[JKellerJr]

Gasoline sales. You believe mpg can’t be increased?
They already have been going up

So they are worried enough about gasoline sales to somehow convince all the manufacturers to artificially suppress ICE development (for which I can see no gain or upside for the manuf.) but they're not worried at all about zero gas use vehicle development?

I just can't make that leap.

Yes I'm sure we'll see incremental MPG improvements. But I believe we have reached the point of diminishing returns. I don't believe there is some major MPG improvement tech on the horizon or that is being held back for some nefarious reason. Just one manufacturer would have to break ranks and come out with it, the rest would have to follow. They then would reap the benefits of the PR campaign about how much better and smarter than they are then the rest.

We have at least 3 versions of unleaded. Pure gas, E10/15, E85. Pure gas gets the best mileage if you can find it, E85 the worst by quite a margin. tried it once, I think I could see the gas gauge drop. I believe it's somewhere around 30% less Not sure what they could to the formulation to change that.

We already have Fuel injection, cylinder deactivation, Engine shut off at stops, 10 speed transmissions. What is left? There is only so much energy in a gallon of gas and the inherent inefficiently of running it through an ICE, then a transmission, then a differential takes its toll.

[huntindog]

I can understand the concern, however one study of the battery health on EVs used in a V2G trial determined that the draw downs of the EV battery actually improved battery health and reduced degradation

That is the first I have ever heard that using a battery increases it's life. Makes no sense what soever unless the persons doing the study wants a certain result

In theory, this could be a unicorn battery.... One that never wears out

[SolarPoweredRV]

That is the first I have ever heard that using a battery increases it's life. Makes no sense what soever unless the persons doing the study wants a certain result

In theory, this could be a unicorn battery.... One that never wears out

As I recall, the study was done by Nissan using the Nissan Leaf. They determined that the small amount of energy used for the grid, actually helped the battery.

[offtohavasu]

I believe there are many improvements to be made with ICEs
Better formulated fuels and engines that get greatly improved MPG I believe are easily obtainable
This isn’t what the oil industry wants though and they still are very powerful. Maybe not as powerful as this “green,clean movement” of EVs but I truly believe it will die before it succeeds. It may return in a future generation as it nears necessity

Now as far as overcoming temps I believe this will be a very difficult challenge especially for the cold. Without spending more and more power to protect the batteries I believe Mother Nature will win

One improvement that I firmly believe in, and a company is working with Duramax engines right now, is the conversion to Hydrogen. The down fall is hydrogen is expensive, for now, to produce. You can just about use the engines as is with injection modifications, has clean combustion, and you can have refill stations to "recharge" quickly.

[JKellerJr]

One improvement that I firmly believe in, and a company is working with Duramax engines right now, is the conversion to Hydrogen. The down fall is hydrogen is expensive, for now, to produce. You can just about use the engines as is with injection modifications, has clean combustion, and you can have refill stations to "recharge" quickly.

Good point, a new/different fuel all together is a possible option. I've heard about hydrogen options but very minimally. Don't really know what the limitations or issues are with that. Great, another rabbit hole to go down Thanks

I'll clarify that my ICE comments are for gas/diesel fueled options only.

[Second Chance]

Good point, a new/different fuel all together is a possible option. I've heard about hydrogen options but very minimally. Don't really know what the limitations or issues are with that. Great, another rabbit hole to go down Thanks

I'll clarify that my ICE comments are for gas/diesel fueled options only.

NASA developed hydrogen fuel cells in the '60s to provide electric power for the Apollo missions. I believe the limitation - for us, anyway - is that they are good for a modest power draw over a long period of time. Modern versions may still be in use for space applications.

Rob

[uwskier]

Hydrogen fuel cells are common in things like buses. They work well for that sort of use case. You can also see Hydrogen cars all over in California. It's just not very easy to find a place to get Hydrogen fuel outside of CA.

If the infrastructure and production could support it, it'd be cool. The only byproduct is clean water.

[rrlowen]

We were considering getting an EV of some sort last spring, but we had a severe weather event (May 21 Derecho) that brought the city to it's knees for 10 days...power was out in 80% of the city due to severe damage. My neighbor, who has an EV, couldn't find anywhere to charge their EV and had to go rent a gas car to get around to be able to get around - especially fuel for the generators where we had to go 60 miles outside of the region to find (no electricity at most stations, and those who were open were out of gas/diesel)...kind of ironic if you ask me.

Then there are the charging stations. My neighbor says it's about a 30-60 minute wait to get a charge station on average when he travels, and then an hour to charge to 80%. After the storm we had, only a few stations were operational, and the wait time was measured in half days or more. And unless your generator is pure sine wave, some EV's won't charge with run of the mill generators.

If I go with some kind of electric, it will definitely be a hybrid of some sort. Can't rely on natural disasters not touching the power grid.

This sounds a lot like the comments which must have been heard back at the turn of the century:
"I tried one of those new gas buggies but there was no place to get gas"
"I think I will just stay with the horses"
And, if there was no place to get gas after the weather event, then we can assume that many gas vehicles were also inoperative.
Even if they had gas, they couldn't pump it!!

Yes, the infrastructure for EV's is not there yet for mass use but don't worry - it will be there soon. Sales and charge points are growing fast. And then, you won't have to breath those toxic fumes in the cities anymore.

Even though it doesn't work right now, EV's and RV's might be a good match in the future. Built in charging at every campground, massive torque in these vehicles, and evolving battery technology which could soon offer 600-800 mile range. It's not for everyone but could be good for a lot of RVers. The cost of travelling would be significantly reduced, Probably by at least 60%, maybe more depending on the cost of electricity in the area.

[NB Canada]

This sounds a lot like the comments which must have been heard back at the turn of the century:
"I tried one of those new gas buggies but there was no place to get gas"
"I think I will just stay with the horses"
And, if there was no place to get gas after the weather event, then we can assume that many gas vehicles were also inoperative.
Even if they had gas, they couldn't pump it!!

Yes, the infrastructure for EV's is not there yet for mass use but don't worry - it will be there soon. Sales and charge points are growing fast. And then, you won't have to breath those toxic fumes in the cities anymore.

Even though it doesn't work right now, EV's and RV's might be a good match in the future. Built in charging at every campground, massive torque in these vehicles, and evolving battery technology which could soon offer 600-800 mile range. It's not for everyone but could be good for a lot of RVers. The cost of travelling would be significantly reduced, Probably by at least 60%, maybe more depending on the cost of electricity in the area.

The campground we may seasonal at next year has a contract to sign that states EVs can not be plug in at the site
People keep going back to the horse and buggy to car story
That was a big leap that eventually radically changed the way people lived
EVs don’t do anything different than my gasser. NOTHING. They are smaller, more expensive, hard to buy and completely inconvenient unless you are retired and don’t even need a car

Last night just for humour I looked around me for the cheapest EV
There are some ,Chevy Bolt in Halifax. Emailed the dealer and come to find out all these cars listed on their site are waiting for batteries??
But then I realized with a range of only 400km I wouldn’t even be able to get one home as Halifax is over 600 KM away. Lol

The EV hype will die in Cali. Hopefully soon

[rrlowen]

I am very excited for electric vehicles to become practical on a large scale. Their relative simplicity and efficiency is fantastic compared to ICE vehicles. Unlike the transition from horses to cars, the "fuel" for electric vehicles is not currently a waste product. If you recall your history, gasoline was a byproduct of refining lamp oil. It was stored in drums or dumped as there was no significant use for it until the ICE came around. The point here is back then there was an abundance of excess fuel as opposed to now where we are already pushing the limits of our power grid in many areas of the country. A direct comparison to the horse to car transition is a bit off the mark.

Electric cars also have to meet the current expectation of driving 400-500 miles on a charge and recharge in 5-10 minutes like we get with our ICE cars. Battery tech isn't there yet. It will come, but we are not there yet.

While the aim of divorcing ourselves from fossil fuels is often a driving factor to make the switch, keep in mind that as of 2019 80% of our energy generation in the US is from fossil fuels. On top of that plastics are a significant part of a vehicles make up. Those come from oil. This is a long winded way of saying fossil fuels are not going away any time soon even if we ban all ICE vehicles.

All of these points are leading to the conclusion that we don't want to cause other potentially more serious issues by forcing the move to EV's without considering the whole picture. Remember, ICE vehicles have had about 100 years of development that EV's have not. EV's are making huge strides in a relatively short amount of time. They will become the dominant vehicle eventually but we need time to make a smart transition.

Very well stated!