Battery/generator needs for boondocking, solar not an option.

[Phrogg]

Hi all,

Hopefully picking up a used 2018 Imagine 2150RB for my first RV soon and I'm trying to realistically figure out my stored power needs. All the info is making my head spin as most of it suggests solar if boondocking.

I'm not a weekend warrior and my camping trips generally last 2 to 3 weeks. I'm in the PNW, spending most of my time on NFS/BLM lands with too much tree cover for solar to really be an option.

That means I'll be running batteries and generators only.

For usage, we won't be in it much during the days or evenings. Except for the first cup of coffee all our time is spent outdoors. Would head in for bed anywhere between 11pm-ish to 2am (depending on the level of partying we're doing) and then use some lights, heat if chilly and maybe TV on a sleep timer till morning. The only other usage would be daytime showers. All cooking is done outdoors on a Camp Chef or Weber charcoal grill.

I might occasionally use the microwave to reheat leftovers...very seldomly though and would use the generator if I did.

Ideally I'd prefer not to run generators for more than a few hours a day at most. Have one 2300watt predator and am prepared to get a 2nd.

I was thinking about adding the extra alternator in my truck (2000 F250 Super Duty, 7.3L Crew/Longbed) and charging a 2nd pair of batts while crawling around the mountain and trips to town.

Would this along with extra propane (2 tanks) on hand be enough? What can I expect here? Would getting a Ecoflow be worth it? Can these be integrated into the RV systems? Totally open to other thoughts/suggestions too.

Thanks!

[ReiMan1776]

I just posted today on this subject:
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...414#post447414

At a minimum I would look at the soon to be released Ecoflow Delta -2 , get the extra battery if you can. You can plug in your appliances directly inside your trailer since it is small and very portable. You could also use a 110 adapter for your RV cable but be sure to shut your converter charger breaker off when you do that. The Delta is small but powerful but not a great amount of capacity.

I am a huge fan of Ecoflow for a number of reasons, biggest one is being able to fully recharge in under 2 hours. I have the Ecoflow 1300 original.

Also, bite the bullit as soon as you can and get a minimum of a 200AH Lithium battery, check out ampere time which I have.... That will require changing out the converter to one that is made to charge lithium batteries.

Also look at the Delta PRO which is on my dream list. This one is a beast, has a 30amp socket you directly plug your RV power cord into.

The conventional wet cell batteries are crap, once you discharge them below 50% they get damaged, cheap in the short run, expensive in the long run.

[Phrogg]

I just posted today on this subject:
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...414#post447414

At a minimum I would look at the soon to be released Ecoflow Delta -2 , get the extra battery if you can. You can plug in your appliances directly inside your trailer since it is small and very portable. You could also use a 110 adapter for your RV cable but be sure to shut your converter charger breaker off when you do that. The Delta is small but powerful but not a great amount of capacity.

I am a huge fan of Ecoflow for a number of reasons, biggest one is being able to fully recharge in under 2 hours. I have the Ecoflow 1300 original.

Also, bite the bullit as soon as you can and get a minimum of a 200AH Lithium battery, check out ampere time which I have.... That will require changing out the converter to one that is made to charge lithium batteries.

Also look at the Delta PRO which is on my dream list. This one is a beast, has a 30amp socket you directly plug your RV power cord into.

The conventional wet cell batteries are crap, once you discharge them below 50% they get damaged, cheap in the short run, expensive in the long run.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm not too sure EcoFlow Delta is going to be best option for the cash for me though. I bought the Delta Mini last year, didn't use it much...pretty much just to power a projector for the occasional movie and ended up just giving it to one of my kiddos after the first trip. While it was nice for the projector, I've got some large portable speakers (10k mAh) that are loud enough to overcome any generator noise when it's ~50ft away in the bed of my truck. I really only used it because I had it and wasn't using it for anything else. I'm not interested in lugging it around to power individual things...all our devices are easily charged in my truck overnight as I've installed 4 x 30w and 2 x 20w charging ports. I can charge all-the-things overnight and have no problems starting the rig in the morning.

For the cost, I'm not sure there's a benefit with EcoFlow for me over standalone LiFePo4 batts? I'm seeing a 400Ah standalone LiFePo4 is ~$1800. The EcoFlow Delta 1300 is about 100Ah at $1000. Maybe I'm missing something though? EcoFlow will be at my local Costco in the next few weeks and can throw some heavy discounts when there as I understand it. So, I'm keeping an open mind about them still as an option. The number of charge cycles seems low and the 2 year warranty on the batts bothers me a bit too.

I'd really like to figure out what I can realistically expect from different configurations. Is there a common formula I can use to determine length of use for both LA and LiFePo in my trailer? How about charge times for each? Benefits of using 2nd alternator (130A all the way up to 320A options available for it). Alt charging would be driving, not idle charging btw. I believe I've read I can charge LiFePro4 with that setup too?

Ideally, I'd like to be able to do these trips with only having to run the generator(or two of them, 3200watt (16Ah or 32Ah) continuous planned) a few hours each day and using my rig to charge too while maintaining my scenario above. I have no problems with DIY stuff either...I'm just not sure what that looks like with all the different options/configurations I'm seeing available. LOL

Thank you for coming to TED talk.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Hi all,

Hopefully picking up a used 2018 Imagine 2150RB for my first RV soon and I'm trying to realistically figure out my stored power needs. All the info is making my head spin as most of it suggests solar if boondocking.

I'm not a weekend warrior and my camping trips generally last 2 to 3 weeks. I'm in the PNW, spending most of my time on NFS/BLM lands with too much tree cover for solar to really be an option.

That means I'll be running batteries and generators only.

For usage, we won't be in it much during the days or evenings. Except for the first cup of coffee all our time is spent outdoors. Would head in for bed anywhere between 11pm-ish to 2am (depending on the level of partying we're doing) and then use some lights, heat if chilly and maybe TV on a sleep timer till morning. The only other usage would be daytime showers. All cooking is done outdoors on a Camp Chef or Weber charcoal grill.

I might occasionally use the microwave to reheat leftovers...very seldomly though and would use the generator if I did.

Ideally I'd prefer not to run generators for more than a few hours a day at most. Have one 2300watt predator and am prepared to get a 2nd.

I was thinking about adding the extra alternator in my truck (2000 F250 Super Duty, 7.3L Crew/Longbed) and charging a 2nd pair of batts while crawling around the mountain and trips to town.

Would this along with extra propane (2 tanks) on hand be enough? What can I expect here? Would getting a Ecoflow be worth it? Can these be integrated into the RV systems? Totally open to other thoughts/suggestions too.

Thanks!

First off, you are way ahead in solving the power issue because you know your camping style and how you intend to use your new coach.

I would hold off on buying two extra Propane tanks as they are bulky and difficult to lug around and store (you always need to have them vented to the outside). Live with your camper for a while and see how much (or little) Propane you actually use. I don't find it too difficult to get Propane refills while out camping. One note here: I don't know whether you have 20 lb or 30 lb tanks on your new camper, if you have 20 lb tanks you will need to decide if you are going to refill your tanks, or if you are going to use "Exchange" tanks. If you are considering using "Exchange" tanks, know that they only contain 15 to 16 lbs of Propane, NOT the full 20 lbs you would normally expect to be included in a 20 lb tank. So, with "Exchange" tanks you are starting your trip with about 20% less Propane than you should be.

Since you already have your Generator, and you don't have any reservations about using it, I would recommend you install a reasonably large Lithium battery bank. 200 amp hours at a minimum, and strongly recommend you start with 400 amp hours of Lithium (LiFePo4) battery storage. Additionally, I would recommend replacing your OEM Converter with a Progressive Dynamics Converter in the 80 to 100 amps range.

The key advantages to Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries is: they are light weight, you can use their full rated capacity (unlike Lead Acid where you can only use 50% of their rated capacity), they can be placed anywhere (because you don't need to worry about dangerous off-gassing), and they charge up very fast, significantly reducing your generator's runtime.

I would also recommend you get one (or maybe two small) EcoFlow type batteries for brewing your morning coffee and viewing your TV at night. These batteries have built-in Inverters and they will allow you to avoid installing an Inverter inside the camper.

I wouldn't upgrade the truck's alternator (or get a second set of batteries) because there just isn't that much energy transferred from the truck to the camper through the 7-pin plug.

One thing you may not be aware of; the furnaces inside of RVs are POWER PIGS and you will use a lot of your battery capacity just keeping warm at night (this is why I strongly recommended you start with 400ah of batteries).

With 400ah of batteries and a couple of EcoFlow type batteries to run all your 120 volt needs, and Propane refrigeration, I would predict your 400ah batteries might last as long as 4 to 6 days and 2+ days if you need to operate your furnace at night.

Here are a couple of threads that discuss some of the same questions you have, along with information on Lithium batteries:

Lithium Batteries Link: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...322#post341322



Link: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...A6basic-wiring

[Phrogg]

First off, you are way ahead in solving the power issue because you know your camping style and how you intend to use your new coach.

I would hold off on buying two extra Propane tanks as they are bulky and difficult to lug around and store (you always need to have them vented to the outside). Live with your camper for a while and see how much (or little) Propane you actually use. I don't find it too difficult to get Propane refills while out camping. One note here: I don't know whether you have 20 lb or 30 lb tanks on your new camper, if you have 20 lb tanks you will need to decide if you are going to refill your tanks, or if you are going to use "Exchange" tanks. If you are considering using "Exchange" tanks, know that they only contain 15 to 16 lbs of Propane, NOT the full 20 lbs you would normally expect to be included in a 20 lb tank. So, with "Exchange" tanks you are starting your trip with about 20% less Propane than you should be.

Since you already have your Generator, and you don't have any reservations about using it, I would recommend you install a reasonably large Lithium battery bank. 200 amp hours at a minimum, and strongly recommend you start with 400 amp hours of Lithium (LiFePo4) battery storage. Additionally, I would recommend replacing your OEM Converter with a Progressive Dynamics Converter in the 80 to 100 amps range.

The key advantages to Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries is: they are light weight, you can use their full rated capacity (unlike Lead Acid where you can only use 50% of their rated capacity), they can be placed anywhere (because you don't need to worry about dangerous off-gassing), and they charge up very fast, significantly reducing your generator's runtime.

I would also recommend you get one (or maybe two small) EcoFlow type batteries for brewing your morning coffee and viewing your TV at night. These batteries have built-in Inverters and they will allow you to avoid installing an Inverter inside the camper.

I wouldn't upgrade the truck's alternator (or get a second set of batteries) because there just isn't that much energy transferred from the truck to the camper through the 7-pin plug.

One thing you may not be aware of; the furnaces inside of RVs are POWER PIGS and you will use a lot of your battery capacity just keeping warm at night (this is why I strongly recommended you start with 400ah of batteries).

With 400ah of batteries and a couple of EcoFlow type batteries to run all your 120 volt needs, and Propane refrigeration, I would predict your 400ah batteries might last as long as 4 to 6 days and 2+ days if you need to operate your furnace at night.

Here are a couple of threads that discuss some of the same questions you have, along with information on Lithium batteries:

Lithium Batteries Link: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...322#post341322



Link: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...A6basic-wiring

Hey there, appreciate the feedback!

To clarify, when I'm talking a higher output single alternator or a 2nd alternator, I'm not suggesting using the 7-pin to charge them. Instead, I'm thinking I'll always have batts in the truck charging when driving and batts in the RV being used...swapping them out as needed.

I'm super ADD, but, have managed to sort through some of this today and I think I have some idea of what I might be doing now. I agree that I'll need 400Ah of batteries at a minimum if I want to minimize my generator usage.

Here's what I've come up with so far: I could upgrade to a HO alternator with my current single alt config and install a Sterling 60A battery to battery charger designed to be used with the rig's existing starter battery configuration. That would allow me to charge 400Ah of batts in about 6 hours in the truck. Or, I could go the 2nd alt option, isolated from the starter battery system, wire two to four 30 amp battery to battery chargers in series and get up to 120A charging, so 3 hours for 400Ah.

I took a deep dive at the solar power forums and I'm also considering buying a 4 pack of the eve 280Ah LiFePo4 cells and building two 560Ah batts Vs just buying 400Ah LiFePo4s. One would be in the RV, the other in the rig charging and then I could swap out as needed.

I'll be looking more at the EcoFlow Delta 1300 when they show up at Costco soon and might pick one up if the deal is good enough...I like the idea of powering the TV off of it...I'm not 100% sure I'll be brewing coffee...been using the boil water > pour over method for years and could just keep doing that via stove in the RV too. At least I'm not having to go outside and fire up the Camp Chef to do it now. :P Powering the TV with it sounds handy too so we can save the juice for the heater fans. We're used to tenting it in ~35 degree temps, so I'm thinking I would only need to run the heater at it's lowest setting for it to feel like paradise in there for us either.

I think you're right that I just need to get out and live in it to figure out exactly where I need to be...but, I'm also trying to figure out somewhat of a solution as my first trip (7 weeks away) will be a 3 week one and I'd rather not be stuck in a situation where I'm battling for battery life either.

[huntindog]

I have been 100% boondocking for over 30 years. I just went Solar with my present Momentum.
So my power needs have been met with generators until now. Since I like you camp on BLM, NFS land, Generator use is not limited to certain hours etc. Everyone seems to woory about having enough Battery storage to make it thru the niight, as that is usually when you need the most power due to furnace dehumidifier, lights cooking etc. So I reversed common thinking.
I ran my generator all night. I used a long power cord and put my little Honda(s) behind a log etc. Doing this we could not even hear them run. It also meant I only needed batteries for daytime use. In RARE cases when AC was needed, or on very cold winter camping, generator use was required 24/7.. But it did not bother us as like I said, we couldn't hear it at all. We used an extended run fuel tank, and just topped it off every couple of days.
I find propane is the most limiting factor as in remote situations it is hard to get, and expensive when you can get it. That is still true with my present Momentum with a healthy solar system. Though solar and batteries can reduce propane use, it is pretty hard to eliminate it. So I do carry extra. I have 6 extra 20# tanks. They are easier to handle and transport than 30s, and sometimes an exchange dealer is the only realistic option.

[Phrogg]

I have been 100% boondocking for iver 30 years. I just went Solar with my present Momentum.
So my power needs have been met with generators until now. Since I like you camp on BLM, NFS land, Gnerator use is not limited to certain hours etc. Everyone seems to woory about haveing enough Battery storage to make it thru the niight, as that is usually when you need the most power due to furnace dehumidifier, lights cooking etc. So I reversed common thinking.
I ran my generator all night. I used a long power cord and put my little Honda(s) behind a log etc. Doing this we could not even hear them run. It also meant I only needed batteries for daytime use. In RARE cases when AC was needed, or on very cold winter camping, generator use was required 24/7.. But it did not bother us as like I said, we couldn't hear it at all. We used an extended run fuel tank, and just topped it off every couple of days.
I find propane is the most limiting factor as in remote situations it is hard to get, and expensive when you can get it. That is still true with my present Momentum with a healthy solar system. Though solar and batteries can reduce propane use, it is pretty hard to eliminate it. So I do carry extra. I do have 6 extra 20# tanks. They are easier to handle and transport than 30s, and sometimes an exhange dealer is the only realistic option.

Hmmm...I haven't considered just running them all night. We generally have friends that will still be tenting it, so that's kinda why I was looking to minimize generator usage. However, I already have a 30A, 100ft extension cord...and they're generally setup right by the river (loud). Now, I'm wondering if they'd even hear it at 100ft away?

For propane, I already have two, 20lb tanks and the RV will come with another 2. Thankfully, there's plenty of refill options both in the small town I'm generally near that we go to for snacks/gas, or the larger town we go to for shopping. I generally only have to refill 1 with the camp chef and occasional sunflower heater usage in the past and someone is usually going to town every-other-day or so. It wouldn't be difficult for me to snag a couple more either though.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[JHC210]

I am interested in converting over to Lithium (LiFePo4) battery but will need to change out my WFCO Converter/Power Panel. I currently have the WFCO 35 amp model WF-2735-PB converter and the WF-8735-PB Power Panle (I think based on the Data Sheet that came with the 22MLE. Any recommendation on a converter/power panel? I found one RV store - WFCO WF-8735-AD for about $230. Seems reasonable but I want to be able to to run 2 - 200ah lithium batteries down the road for boondocking.

[stroguy]

How much charging current can realistically be realized from the 7 pin 12V line? Adding a second alternator/charger would be limited by built in wiring. Just wondering if that is cost effective or run the second alternator and a separate wiring harness?

Not specifically questioned to your goals, just a general question.

[wjpatter]

Everything you have described, your 2300-watt generator should do the trick unless you want to run the AC a lot. My microwave pulls 1800 watts which is a load for the 2000-watt invertor that I installed. I replaced the crappy 12v interstate battery the dealer installed with more capacity so I could go two nights without power or recharge.

The single best modification I made was to install a 50-amp dc/dc converter to be able to charge off the truck. The 7-pin plug can trickle charge at 10 amps but does not have the capacity to do much more. I ran 4-gauge wire from the battery (via 200-amp breaker) to a connector in the bed. When I tow, I run my refrigerators on AC and charge the battery bank off the converter. If my batteries and really discharged, I leave my refrigerators on propane and dump the full 50 amps from my dc/dc converter into the batteries. My single truck alternator is rated for some 250-amps and is more than sufficient to power the dc/dc convertor all day long. Several trips, I've recharged the batteries exclusively by backing the truck to the connector and letting the truck idle for several hours. Even at idle speed, the truck delivered 50 amps. The dc/dc convertor has provided me a lot of flexibility without having to drag my generator everywhere I go.

Best modification that I've made. I got a lot of help from people on this forum doing it.
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...ghlight=renogy

My biggest regret was not installing lithium batteries. The $2000 price tag for the batteries and need to replace the OEM charger was my roadblock, but still a regret.