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  1. #1
    Site Sponsor BeerBrewer's Avatar
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    Why no more gas/electric refrigerators?

    Why did GD shift away from using gas/electric refrigerators? All of the new Imagine trailers that we looked at had Furion 12V compressor style refrigerators. I read that this will increase the demand on the batteries by about 90 Amp hours per day. We also were told by the salesman that to account for the extra DC drain that GD added a 165 watt solar panel on the roof with a 25 amp solar controller. I found this configuration very strange also, since the max wattage on the controller was 300 watts. So can a second 165 panel be added? Won't this exceed the solar controllers capacity (165 +165 = 330)? I also noticed that buying a second the Furion 165W panel could be insanely expensive ($566). I did a quick check on Amazon and found that a 12V 100W panel costs around $100. So rather than buy another Furion 165W panel, it would be a lot cheaper to buy three 100W panels. I'm not saying I'd do that because we camp mainly on the east coast and are almost always in the shade, so I seriously doubt that we'd get any serious use out of any solar panel. I agree that the new compressor style refrigerators are a bit larger (8 vs 10 Cu ft) but now I need to carry an additional 100 amp-hr battery and these aren't cheap. Once I corrected the poor installation mistakes made with my Dometic gas/electric refrigerator we haven't had an issue keeping our food cool. So did GD fix something that wasn't broken? We were thinking of upgrading our trailer, but now I'm not so sure. Am I missing something?

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    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Perhaps @huntr70 will chime in here...

    Rob
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  3. #3
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    I believe it's a marketing choice by Grand Design. I would imagine that most people are connected to shore power most of the time, and an electric fridge is a good selling point. Especially considering the uneven performance of many gas absorption fridges. But, as you indicate, they are not the best choice for all RV'ers.
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  4. #4
    Commercial Member huntr70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBrewer View Post
    Why did GD shift away from using gas/electric refrigerators? All of the new Imagine trailers that we looked at had Furion 12V compressor style refrigerators. I read that this will increase the demand on the batteries by about 90 Amp hours per day. We also were told by the salesman that to account for the extra DC drain that GD added a 165 watt solar panel on the roof with a 25 amp solar controller. I found this configuration very strange also, since the max wattage on the controller was 300 watts. So can a second 165 panel be added? Won't this exceed the solar controllers capacity (165 +165 = 330)? I also noticed that buying a second the Furion 165W panel could be insanely expensive ($566). I did a quick check on Amazon and found that a 12V 100W panel costs around $100. So rather than buy another Furion 165W panel, it would be a lot cheaper to buy three 100W panels. I'm not saying I'd do that because we camp mainly on the east coast and are almost always in the shade, so I seriously doubt that we'd get any serious use out of any solar panel. I agree that the new compressor style refrigerators are a bit larger (8 vs 10 Cu ft) but now I need to carry an additional 100 amp-hr battery and these aren't cheap. Once I corrected the poor installation mistakes made with my Dometic gas/electric refrigerator we haven't had an issue keeping our food cool. So did GD fix something that wasn't broken? We were thinking of upgrading our trailer, but now I'm not so sure. Am I missing something?
    I can't pretend to know enough about solar to answer those questions, but GD went to 12 volt refer's due to inconsistent performance with gas absorption, and availability.

    12 volt compressor refers have been around for years, with several different brands. Furrion/Lippert just happens to be one of the newer companies.

    When it comes down to it, in overall RV ownership, roughly 90% of owners never use their RV off of shore power. When on shore power, battery regeneration is a mute point. The factory solar is there to help charge batteries, but the right battery/batteries and solar configuration for individual needs are for aftermarket.
    Steve- Inventory Manager at Tom Schaeffer's RV, Shoemakersville, PA www.tomschaeffers.com
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  5. #5
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    For one it's cheaper to buy and install. Just like those solid steps. Labor is usually the biggest part of a project. At least it was that way when I worked in construction.
    For the 12V fridge the MFG doesn't have to cutout the wall for the fridge side vents. No roof cut out and no vents to buy or install. No labor for caulking. No gas lines to run. AC/DC power is a wash. All thats needed is the same size interior opening since the 12V and gas/elec fridges have pretty much the same foot print.
    IMO it's a much cheaper way to go and like any other MFG they can keep the same MSRP and make more $$$.


    Just like solid steps. No side skirt cut out and trims needed. No extra support frame for the fold out steps to install.
    All thats needed is to open the door and screw the steps to the floor.

    12V fridges have been used in the marine industry for years. I actually have a GE 9.8 cuft 12V in my TT. Yes it takes more batteries and lots of solar but the trade off in added cuft in the same size AC/DC opening and the added simplicity of it are well worth it. We do about 70/30 dry camp to elec so it works well for us. I've had my GE for 3 seasons and it's worked flawlessly. Just like everything else RV I'm sure there are other GE owners that have has some issues just like with Dometic, Furrion, Haier, etc.

  6. #6
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    Better cooling, cools while on the road without needing gas, more space in same footprint, cools much faster.

    You can add non-Furrion solar panels to get more capacity without needing to spend what they want for the Furrion. There are adapter cables to make standard panels work with the proprietary Furrion connectors.
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  7. #7
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    Just a FWIW, our gas absorption unit works very well. At this point we are showing 10° in the freezer and 28° in the fridge. While I do believe the electric compressor fridges are better, I also think the majority of gas absorption fridges do just fine. You only hear about them when there are issues, rarely does anyone post that their fridge works great. JMO anyway. If I were doing a lot of off shore power RV'ing, I think I'd stick with the gas absorption versus the very large monetary investment in solar panels, and lithium batteries. But that's just me, and we are almost always plugged in.
    Howard and Peggy
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  8. #8
    Site Team Redapple63's Avatar
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    Why no more gas/electric refrigerators?

    Quote Originally Posted by goducks14 View Post
    For one it's cheaper to buy and install. Just like those solid steps. Labor is usually the biggest part of a project. At least it was that way when I worked in construction.
    For the 12V fridge the MFG doesn't have to cutout the wall for the fridge side vents. No roof cut out and no vents to buy or install. No labor for caulking. No gas lines to run. AC/DC power is a wash. All thats needed is the same size interior opening since the 12V and gas/elec fridges have pretty much the same foot print.
    IMO it's a much cheaper way to go and like any other MFG they can keep the same MSRP and make more $$$.


    Just like solid steps. No side skirt cut out and trims needed. No extra support frame for the fold out steps to install.
    All thats needed is to open the door and screw the steps to the floor.

    12V fridges have been used in the marine industry for years. I actually have a GE 9.8 cuft 12V in my TT. Yes it takes more batteries and lots of solar but the trade off in added cuft in the same size AC/DC opening and the added simplicity of it are well worth it. We do about 70/30 dry camp to elec so it works well for us. I've had my GE for 3 seasons and it's worked flawlessly. Just like everything else RV I'm sure there are other GE owners that have has some issues just like with Dometic, Furrion, Haier, etc.
    I don’t think it is any cheaper one over the other. The cost of the solar panel, wiring and charge controller coupled with the labor to in stall makes it a wash, maybe even a bit more expensive.

    I believe the availability and even the cost of the absorption units and their varied performance based on external temps is primary why we are seeing the change.

    I do agree with you that there are more correct functioning absorption units out there than we estimate. I also have as absorption working just fine, but we here more of the ones that aren’t.

    With that said, the factory is doing a bit of a poor job providing a sufficient infrastructure to support the change over.

    165 watt Solar with a very anemic charge controller just shows they are still cutting corners. On a dc unit that could use from 60 to 90 ah daily a 165 watt panel that operates at maybe 70-80% is nowhere near enough. Min 300 watt capacity to ensure all conditions will maintain the higher capacity battery bank needed for this application. Minimum of 200 ah battery bank (IMO) is needed to ensure at least a few days with minimum or no Solar.

    We have a way to go yet.

    Bill
    2019 GMC 3500 SRW Sierra Denali Duramax
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  9. #9
    Site Sponsor livinthelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    Just a FWIW, our gas absorption unit works very well. At this point we are showing 10° in the freezer and 28° in the fridge. While I do believe the electric compressor fridges are better, I also think the majority of gas absorption fridges do just fine. You only hear about them when there are issues, rarely does anyone post that their fridge works great. JMO anyway. If I were doing a lot of off shore power RV'ing, I think I'd stick with the gas absorption versus the very large monetary investment in solar panels, and lithium batteries. But that's just me, and we are almost always plugged in.
    Ditto here. Freezer showing -1.5 degrees, and fridge is 34 degrees. Working fine for 6 years now. We've added inverter connection to it (lithium batteries) so that we don't have to run it on propane when traveling.

    2017 Reflection 26RL "Mili"
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  10. #10
    Seasoned Camper
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    It’s probably that the average buyer prefers the 12v fridge. Partly because it works like the fridge at home.

    I would say we are atypical, and we do go off grid (infrequently), but we also prefer the 12V fridge and consider it a major upgrade. It’s on while I drive without the gas on, and it cools off quick even when loaded up. I used to have to carry a cooler for long drive days and swap everything in and out if we had any perishable food. And then wait 6 hours for the fridge to cool back down. And keep the wasps out of the back.

    So I think (and this thread is evidence of it) the dual fuels still have a place. However, we prefer the new style, long as it keeps working.

    Just posted to share a different perspective that may be what dealers / grand design are seeing from a sales perspective. I see the cost thing, if they hadn’t also added all the solar stuff. But with that added I doubt the 12V is any cheaper.

    I haven’t taken the new trailer off grid yet, but we did park it for 24hrs and the fridge was on (this was before I realized the battery disconnect didn’t cut it off). It didn’t kill the puny dealer installed group 24 batt in that time (did get some sun) and was ice cold with battery reading fully charged 24hrs later. At some point we will see how it does on my aging dual group 24 setup (had b/c it just fit on previous trailer). Might as well try it before upgrading.
    Last edited by Stealth13777; 10-03-2022 at 07:21 PM.

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