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  1. #41
    Site Team Redapple63's Avatar
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    Converting to lithium...keep my converter (for now)?

    It is for all of these reasons that if I were not going to a Victron inverter/charger setup, I would be getting a dedicated converter/charger for Lifepo4. Single profile, easy peasy and simple.

    Many people are using the stock converter/charger without harming the Lifepo4 batteries.

    I currently swapped out my stock WFCO 9855 for a Progressive Dynamics. That will be for sale when I install my solar and inverter setup with Lifepo4.

    Bill
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    Yes, I am aware of the balancing that should be done before you properly put the battery in service. I have had great luck on the two batteries I have in service now. It took about 3 weeks to top balance my batteries to 3.65v with my small power supply. I really could care less about the time, I had a lot of irons in the fire.

    What I want to prove to myself is, Is it true that the standard converter will only charge a lithium battery to 53% or will it go to a higher SOC like I suspect it would?

    If indeed it does only get to 53%, then I doubt if any of the cells would top out and stop the charging process but I will of course watch that. I will post my results and let people take that it for what it's worth.

    If none of the test results are accurate, I will start with a properly balanced battery, and post my results. Test results are only as good as the test itself. That is why I pointed out the voltage drop. If the drop is that bad, then that should be addressed before condemning the standard converter.
    It will totally depend on the output capabilities of the charger....both voltage and amps and how long the charger stay in bulk charge (Constant Current mode) before it settle into absorption or float.....or if it even goes to bulk mode.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
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  3. #43
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    This tread is about the stock converter charging lithium batteries. I am just going to build the batteries and use the stock GD converter and see where the batteries charge at. It's not much more than that. It certainly will inform me if the stock converter will charge the battery at 53% like others have stated.

    I am well aware about the proper charging method of a lithium battery, but that is not what I am trying to figure out.
    Last edited by Butcher; 10-14-2022 at 07:01 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    You have waaaay too many variables in your question to get an honest answer.

    1. If your WFCO converter is for FLA batteries, how much voltage does it actually put out? Have you checked it? Does it ever get to the "promised" 14.4V output for at least a couple of hours?

    2. Fridge = ???? Is it an absorption.....a 12VDC....or a residential (probably not, just asking for clarity) and what kind of amperage does it pull when running. Will you be running it on propane or electric when you stop?

    3. Not really a question but your comment about pulling over for the night......there will be NO solar power being produced, so that's a no go for help from solar.

    So DO you have a LiFePO battery or still the FLA? and are you going to buy a LiFePO battery?
    1. I have not checked the voltage but plan on replacing the one I have with the AD version. That is what GD told me to do.
    2. We have the 12 volt fridge.
    3. I know for a fact that if my FLA is fully charged it will easily power the fridge overnight. That I have tested.

    But again I do not plan on boondocking in my TT at all. I do want to upgrade the battery and will next year. Now WFCO says it will charge the LiFePO battery to about 80% and I assume the solar will try to get it to 100% but probably will not.
    Upstate NY
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  5. #45
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    So many things to get done but I did spend a bit of time getting my third battery built. It's a DIY CATL 302 LifePo4 battery with a JBD BMS. 2ga battery leads, hydraulically crimped leads.

    I mentioned that I would post the results of using my stock WFCO-9855, non lithium rated 55A, converter, to charge this lithium battery. My other BMS's are set to a max voltage of 3.45v and this one is set to 3.55v. I will change it to read the same as the others once I install it.

    At this time, the converter has charged this battery to at least 3.4v and it is still charging. I know that using voltage to determine the SOC of a lithium battery is not an accurate way. That is well known and I am not challenging that. I do know once the voltage gets near the max/min range, the voltages change dramatically. At these levels, I believe it can be determined with some certainty that the battery is near full or empty.
    https://www.powerstream.com/lithium-...ge-voltage.htm

    I am certain that most people will agree that 3.4v is certainly more than 53% and more like over 90%. This is exactly what I expected using the specs from the stock 55A converter that GD installed in my 29RS.

    Screen shot at the beginning of the charge.

    Screen shot of the battery still charging.


    Yes, I will post the final result once the current drops to 0A. Yes, I understand that the converter charging will effect the voltage reading of the battery, but I feel very confident, if I did turn off the converter right now, I would be well over 53% SOC.

    I am certain people will disagree with my results, but so far, I believe the stock converter will charge a LifePo4 battery to an acceptable state, not quickly, not fully, but certainly way more than what has been told. I also believe that anyone that mentions that it will only charge at a 53% has other issues, issues not caused by a properly working converter. I suspect voltage drops or test equipment would be the only reason to come up with that conclusion.
    Last edited by Butcher; 11-20-2022 at 09:29 AM.

  6. #46
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    Sorry to be so late, but I have lots going on. The battery finally stopped charging at 13.7v, with an individual cell reading of 3.42x. The BMS was set to 3.55v so it should have taken more of a charge. I did set it that high to to see what the converter would do. It took about 8-12hrs to get to the end. I was not present when it finally stopped charging, I just took a screenshot. If you really dive deep into the SOC on LifePo4 batteries, 3.42v is a good place to be to have enough capacity and low stress on the battery.

    The purpose of me posting this information is to show that just because someone with good credibility does not mean they are right. I do not think those type of people want to start something but I do believe when they say something, they do not understand it's taken as gospel. I believe that testing and facts should part of your decisions making and that just because someone says so, does not make it so.

    Yes, that applies with my ramblings. I posted my results and you can do what you want with them. As far as I am concerned, a stock converter should be fine. It will not charge your batteries as fast as you can, but that is not what the topic was about.

    Final result.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    Sorry to be so late, but I have lots going on. The battery finally stopped charging at 13.7v, with an individual cell reading of 3.42x. The BMS was set to 3.55v so it should have taken more of a charge. I did set it that high to to see what the converter would do. It took about 8-12hrs to get to the end. I was not present when it finally stopped charging, I just took a screenshot. If you really dive deep into the SOC on LifePo4 batteries, 3.42v is a good place to be to have enough capacity and low stress on the battery.

    The purpose of me posting this information is to show that just because someone with good credibility does not mean they are right. I do not think those type of people want to start something but I do believe when they say something, they do not understand it's taken as gospel. I believe that testing and facts should part of your decisions making and that just because someone says so, does not make it so.

    Yes, that applies with my ramblings. I posted my results and you can do what you want with them. As far as I am concerned, a stock converter should be fine. It will not charge your batteries as fast as you can, but that is not what the topic was about.

    Final result.
    I agree with your statement about the stock converter/charger. I've stated it many times on this forum that if someone wants to upgrade to a lithium battery but not ready to start replacing other stuff yet, there is no reason to wait. Been using my lithium battery since June 2021 still using the stock converter/charger and even with its downsides, I have more reserve capacity than I did with the lead acid battery and without risking battery damage by running it below 50%. That said, I will finally be upgrading to a Victron Multiplus in the spring before camping season starts again, along with adding a second lithium battery. I am looking forward to taking full advantage of the batteries at that point. But it worked just fine while I had a chance to see how we travel, how we use power, etc., before we jumped in and invested in things we may have realized after a few months were not the right fit.
    Chad
    2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
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  8. #48
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    I swapped my converter at the same time of installing the batteries. The main purpose? To charge them faster. I knew I was going to have now less then 600ah but probably go to 900ah. Assuming if the batteries would be fully drained, it would take around 18 hours to fully charge the 900ah vs 9 hrs with my current 100 converter.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    I swapped my converter at the same time of installing the batteries. The main purpose? To charge them faster. I knew I was going to have now less then 600ah but probably go to 900ah. Assuming if the batteries would be fully drained, it would take around 18 hours to fully charge the 900ah vs 9 hrs with my current 100 converter.
    I have to ask this. With stock converter and the solar panels would the batteries get to 100%? I am a bit confused because if the converter can only charge say to 80%, wouldn't the solar pick up the slack?
    Upstate NY
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  10. #50
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    I do not know. Right now, I do not have solar so I can't say for certain. There are plenty of people here that do and maybe they can share their results.

    If the converter is putting out 13.6v and your solar is putting out 14.2v [just throwing out numbers], those numbers would cancel out some how because you are not going to have both voltages at the same time. Would the converter eat up that voltage differential? Would the solar just drop the voltage?

    Then you have to ask yourself, why would you have both going at the same time? Because you are too lazy to turn off the solar or unplug from the grid? I am lazy so I can see that is the only reason me doing it.

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