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Thread: Lithium over Lead Acid Batteries
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10-24-2022, 12:37 AM #1
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Lithium over Lead Acid Batteries
Last week I decided to search Amazon for Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries, just to check on how far prices have come down. I was quite pleased with the pricing and selection I found...
I found several 100ah (ah = Amp Hour) Lithium batteries at, or below $299. Most of these are available with free shipping from Amazon Prime.
At this price point Lithium is definitely the better choice over Lead Acid batteries...
Certainly Lithium is a better choice than a pair of 6v Golf Cart batteries or even a 12v AGM battery, because, at $299, there is almost no difference between Lithium and LA. Additionally, since it would take two Group 31, Deep Cycle, batteries to equal the 100ah of energy storage you have with a single Lithium battery you would spend more on the pair of 12v batteries than you would buying a single Lithium (LiFePo4) battery.
The only thing that leans toward Lead Acid's favor, is the fact that many of us would need to replace our OEM Converter with a "Lithium Capable" Converter to ensure we could take full advantage of our new Lithium battery. However, many newer coaches already have an "Auto Detect" type Converter that will charge Lithium batteries without needing to be replaced. If you have a WFCO Converter, look for the letters "AD" at the end of the model number, this will be the "Auto Detect", Lithium Capable model.
If you find that you do not have a "Lithium Capable" Converter, you can still install a new Lithium battery, just realize that you will be limited to charging it to only 55% to 60% of it's rated ah (Amp Hour) capacity, this will still be more capacity than you could get from your Lead Acid battery(ies) due to LA batteries only being capable of producing 50% of their rated capacity without damage (it is recommended to not drain a LA battery below 50% capacity). You can easily install your "Lithium Capable" Converter at a future date (or not at all, if the Lithium battery is performing well for you).
Beyond price, Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries are far superior to Lead Acid batteries...
Lithium batteries are:
100% of their ah capacity can be used, vs only 50% for LA.
Lighter than LA (by at least 50%) and can be mounted in any direction.
Have a built-in Battery Management System (BMS) that protects the battery.
Many BMSs have BlueTooth capabilities that will let you monitor your battery(ies) from your phone.
Very Long Lasting > 4,000 cycles or > ten years of daily use.
Maintain a higher constant voltage than LA which can help protect your sensitive 12v circuit boards throughout your coach.
They are very safe, safer than Lead Acid batteries (because of explosive off-gassing).
They can be mounted anywhere, even under your bed because they are sealed and don't produce any harmful gasses (unlike LA).
You can add more batteries as you need/want to, because, each battery has it's own BMS and they do not need to be "Matched" like LA batteries in a battery bank need to be.
They are completely maintenance free.
The only real drawback with Lithium batteries is that they can not be charged when the internal battery temp is below 32F degrees, the batteries can still be discharged below freezing, they just can't be charged. This limitation can be easily overcome by installing them in a heated area of your coach (i.e.: heated hold, under Dinette bench, under the bed or in the bottom of a closet). If you will be camping in cold weather this is something you will need to plan for during your installation. If you normally store your coach during the Winter, no problem, just completely disconnect your battery from the coach (note: usually the battery switch installed by Grand Design will not fully disconnect your battery, you will need a separate battery disconnect, or just disconnect the cable from the battery).
For all the reasons listed above, as well as the new price parity, I strongly recommend everyone upgrade to Lithium battery(ies), or, at least seriously consider upgrading to Lithium.
Quality Note: If you find a battery you are interested in, check out the YouTube channels: "Lithium Solar" and "DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse", both presenters have performed several tear downs of Lithium batteries and they might have a tear down video of the battery you are interested in purchasing.
Shopping notes: If you are installing more than 100ah of Lithium capacity, you may be able to save some money by buying batteries with 200ah or 300ah of storage capacity, just divide the price by 2 or 3 to get the equivalent 100ah cost for comparison.Last edited by SolarPoweredRV; 10-24-2022 at 12:43 AM.
David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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10-24-2022, 06:32 AM #2
This is the one thing I can't find on the Amazon batteries:
Can they support cranking the generator (heavy, but short duration load)2019 GD Momentum 397TH
Considering a 395
99 Ford F-250, 7.3, 6-speed.
22 Ford F-450
Former Fulltimers, now just using toy hauler to go to Motocross Races and Mountain Bike parks.
Va Beach, VA
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10-24-2022, 06:33 AM #3
That said, some of the discharge rates are "close" with the HYD pump for slides/leveling/gear on my 397TH. Which is a longer sustained load.
2019 GD Momentum 397TH
Considering a 395
99 Ford F-250, 7.3, 6-speed.
22 Ford F-450
Former Fulltimers, now just using toy hauler to go to Motocross Races and Mountain Bike parks.
Va Beach, VA
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10-24-2022, 07:21 AM #4
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Jim (& Sharon)
2015 GD Momentum 385TH - SOLD
For Sale - 2015 Ford F-350 DRW 4x4 Lariat w/ AirLift bags, Titan 65 gal. OEM replacement fuel tank.
The toy:
2017 RZR XP 1000 EPS SE
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10-24-2022, 07:50 AM #5
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I agree, I would recommend at least a pair of 100ah Lithium batteries connected via a Buss Bar to allow each battery to equally share the high amperage load required by the generator. I would also recommend that you have at least two batteries in your battery bank, i.e.: if you have a 200ah battery bank, use two 100ah batteries instead of a single 200ah battery (of course a pair of 200ah batteries will also work well).
To be clear, when I mention "Connected via Buss Bar" I mean the cables from each battery are connected to a common Buss Bar and the Load is then connected to the same Buss Bar. I would not recommend the more common method of connecting cables from one battery to the next and then connecting cables direct from the battery to the load.David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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10-24-2022, 10:05 AM #6
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What's the size on the generator? It's what, 1 CCA for each CC of generator displacement? Any half-decent 100Ah LFP will surge 200A for long enough to start a generator. For extra margin, a pair would be a good recommendation.
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10-24-2022, 10:43 AM #7
Onan 5500 generator.
Yeah. Going to a 100AH battery fine.
Having to get 4 batterrie$$ to be able to start the generator. I can buy a ton of gas for the genset for $30002019 GD Momentum 397TH
Considering a 395
99 Ford F-250, 7.3, 6-speed.
22 Ford F-450
Former Fulltimers, now just using toy hauler to go to Motocross Races and Mountain Bike parks.
Va Beach, VA
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10-24-2022, 11:40 AM #8
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Well, yes, if you are going to just run off the generator anyway, I wouldn't recommend buying 1000Ah of battery.
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10-24-2022, 11:42 AM #9
I was looking to "run non AC loads for longer" between solar and lithium, but still run the genset when AC is needed, or it's been cloudy for x days.
The only having to run for maybe an hour to charge batteries without solar was enticing.
The lack of cranking amps (genset and HYD pump) is what holds me back.2019 GD Momentum 397TH
Considering a 395
99 Ford F-250, 7.3, 6-speed.
22 Ford F-450
Former Fulltimers, now just using toy hauler to go to Motocross Races and Mountain Bike parks.
Va Beach, VA
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10-24-2022, 11:48 AM #10
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Can you run a dedicated car battery (like one of the smallest ones, maybe some kind of Optima) for the generator starter?
For all other use cases, lithium has a much better sustained current capacity than any lead acid. And much faster charge time, too.
Channging Battery Type?
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