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  1. #1
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    Lithium Charging in Cold Weather

    We have a Lion Lithium battery (UT1300) which claims to have a proprietary BMS. Their claim is that this prevents the battery from overcharging or discharging as well as operating outside of the temperature range. I'm now somewhat skeptical as the battery is the lightest weight of several other same rated Lithium batteries. Anyone have experience with the Lion Lithium?
    https://lionenergy.com/products/lion-safari-ut-1300
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  2. #2
    Site Sponsor ExNihilo's Avatar
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    I do not- However:

    I bought Ampere Time which are well documented to have no BMS control for such. A simple answer is adding an appropriate size DC circuit with a switch to apply tank heater pads to the battery(s). I have four so even in one of the internal thermostats fail I am comfortable with that (a load from the battery produces heat as well).

    I do monitor the actual temperature (Victron Connect) and added a modest amount of foam insulation around the batteries as well.

    For about $50 bucks (add $30 per battery) you can rest easy.
    Hope it helps.
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  3. #3
    Site Team Soundsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterdrago View Post
    We have a Lion Lithium battery (UT1300) which claims to have a proprietary BMS. Their claim is that this prevents the battery from overcharging or discharging as well as operating outside of the temperature range. I'm now somewhat skeptical as the battery is the lightest weight of several other same rated Lithium batteries. Anyone have experience with the Lion Lithium?
    https://lionenergy.com/products/lion-safari-ut-1300
    The Lion battery can only be safely charged above 32 degrees F. Charging at lower temps risks damaging the battery. There's an interesting test of the battery on YouTube. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEALK6oJgs)
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundsailor View Post
    The Lion battery can only be safely charged above 32 degrees F. Charging at lower temps risks damaging the battery. There's an interesting test of the battery on YouTube. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEALK6oJgs)
    It appears the BMS will shut it down at the too low of a temp. That's what I gleamed from the video. Certainly lower than 32 before the shutdown.
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  5. #5
    Site Sponsor sande005's Avatar
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    In the video, he wasn't able, except indirectly, to check the internal temp of the battery. So while the exterior was much colder, the BMS seems to prevent charging when it internally reaches 32. And he didn't seem to be able to get the battery to -4 that is the low temp for discharging, but one assumes there is a cutoff for that, too. The take away is that it takes the battery some amount of time to reach the critical temp, and that it may generate some heat on its own when charging/discharging. Interesting that Lion doesn't directly state the cutoff temps in the specs, and only gives a vague statement about the temps in general use. But it does seem to have safety cutoffs.

    Another video by Will Prouse doing a tear down notes that at least prior versions were significantly under capacity of that advertised. He asserts that the lighter weight is the result - you are buying a 100 AH battery that is undersized and can only deliver 83 AH. The BMS may also be aggressively limiting the total that can be taken out.
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  6. #6
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    DIY battery build using 4 EVE 302AH cells. After the build was complete, the battery was fully charged and then hooked up to a 12VDC heater. That heater would pull between 18.5 amps to right around 20 amps....depending on the ambient air temperature.....so a fairly slow and controlled discharge over the entire test. End result produced 305AH when I shut it off at about 4% to 5% remaining SOC....which was 2.65V per cell or 10.6V total. That number is still a bit above the critical cutoff voltage (2.5V per cell or 10V total).

    Here is a pic of the cells clamped together in a fixture before placement in a heated/insulated battery box that I also built
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  7. #7
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    Their website seems to say there is no safeguard to below freezing charging.

    https://lionenergy.com/products/lion-safari-ut-1300

  8. #8
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    This is in their FAQ's. They do have procedure to restart them if they end up shutting down.

    What is a BMS?
    The Safari UT 1300 has a smart internal Battery Management System (BMS) that acts as a safety net to shut down the battery if it is out of the parameters. This prevents the battery from over charging or discharging as well as operating outside of the temperature range.
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  9. #9
    Site Sponsor sande005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobinICT View Post
    This is in their FAQ's. They do have procedure to restart them if they end up shutting down.

    What is a BMS?
    The Safari UT 1300 has a smart internal Battery Management System (BMS) that acts as a safety net to shut down the battery if it is out of the parameters. This prevents the battery from over charging or discharging as well as operating outside of the temperature range.
    Hence why I posted that the information was vague, and goes to the original posters question. It seems like they probably do have temp protection, but there are no specifications as to what temps the BMS is set to - nor for other things, like over voltage charging limits, what cutoff (capacity remaining) it is set to (to prevent over discharging), out of balance cell conditions, etc.

    Looks like the questions have to be asked directly of Lion. At least they have a U.S. base of operations.
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  10. #10
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    Pretty clear that they you will have problems if you attempt to charge them in the freezing weather.

    'The Safari UT lithium battery series performs better than lead acid batteries in most weather conditions. It can charge between temps of 32° and 113°F and can discharge between -4° and 131°F at 100% rate.'

    and

    'If you want to use some type of heating element to keep the battery above freezing, check out our our Lion Energy battery warmer!'

    Don't forget this too

    'The Safari UT and other lithium batteries can be placed in an insulated space, inside the RV or other climate controlled areas. Some users have suggested using a Battery Heating Pad that you can find online. We recommend using the battery in a climate controlled location.'

    https://lionenergy.com/products/lion-safari-ut-1300

    Of course, I would just contact them.

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