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  1. #11
    Site Sponsor ajg617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynot4me2 View Post
    I don't have a diesel yet (my next tv) so I'm reading this to educate myself before I do get it. So my question is, if the fuel pump needs this added lubrication that's in the added additives then why isn't the manufacturer stating this? Since these engines are built in the USA or for manufacturers (GM, Ford, Dodge) that are in the USA, one would think that it would be design for diesel with USA blends. Just trying to figure thus out.
    Well, perception of emissions is one reason, but culture and profit are others. A lot of variables and many misconceptions about diesel in the US. The following article goes back to 2018 but raises some interesting points with some merit (except for high top-end speeds of 60's muscle cars). But like overhead telephone wires, much of gasoline vehicles is just historically the way it's been done.

    https://rentar.com/no-diesel-cars-u-...opular-abroad/

    The auto manufacturing industry hasn't helped either.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Robin & John
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin, 55gal Titan
    2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar & Onan, 8K axles with discs, 18K GVWR, W/D, Heat Pump, Goosebox, Battleborn

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  2. #12
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynot4me2 View Post
    I don't have a diesel yet (my next tv) so I'm reading this to educate myself before I do get it. So my question is, if the fuel pump needs this added lubrication that's in the added additives then why isn't the manufacturer stating this? Since these engines are built in the USA or for manufacturers (GM, Ford, Dodge) that are in the USA, one would think that it would be design for diesel with USA blends. Just trying to figure thus out.
    This has been going on since long before the horse and buggy age.
    There is always someone selling an elixer/potion/snake oil, etc. to cure something.
    The only sure thing they do is lighten ones wallet.

    BTW, I have never used any additives in 22 years of diesel ownership.
    No issues yet.
    Last edited by huntindog; 11-13-2022 at 05:50 PM.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  3. #13
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmcqueen View Post
    You are wrong about fuel pump not needing the lubrication. Lack of lubrication in the extra-low sulfur diesel fuels that we have here in the USA is the main cause of failure of the CP4 fuel pumps. I see you are from Canada and have a diffarant fuel blend there then we do in the USA.
    CP4's?, the main reason they fail is because they were poorly designed.
    As for my 'no additive' policy, I just go with what a factory Cummins mechanic here told me. "Well they won't hurt, but the engine is designed with pump fuel in mind, so you are just wasting your money".
    2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins SRW w/Aisin
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  4. #14
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
    CP4's?, the main reason they fail is because they were poorly designed.
    As for my 'no additive' policy, I just go with what a factory Cummins mechanic here told me. "Well they won't hurt, but the engine is designed with pump fuel in mind, so you are just wasting your money".
    Your mechanic is 100% right if you are in Canada.
    Today’s Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) does not contain the lubricity needed to fully protect our vehicles. The Bosch CP4 fuel pump has an unusually high failure rate in the U.S., upwards of 7%, when compared to 1% failure rate in Europe. So why is the failing CP4 being installed in so many vehicles? When leaving the manufacturer the CP4 pump is typically successful because the pump is manufactured in Europe. The difference between the USA and Europe is that the lubricity properties have not been removed from the European diesel fuel, as it has in the U.S. fuel. The European EN-590 diesel fuel has a wear scar diameter 460-micron specification while in the U.S. the base is 520-micron in ASTM US D-975. Therefore, the failure is caused by the lack of lubricity in ultra-low sulfur fuel in the USA.

  5. #15
    Seasoned Camper MtnGuy's Avatar
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    I use Motorcraft PM-22-A in the summer and PM-23-A in the winter in my 2017 F350. Those are the only 1s listed in the owners manual. I figure a little extra lubrication for the HPFP can’t hurt.

  6. #16
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    I have been using Pittsburgh Power Max Mileage Catalyst and have see 1.3+ MPG gain and using much less DEF. It's super concentrated and easy to use.
    2021 RAM 3500 DRW 6.7 HO Cummins
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmcqueen View Post
    Your mechanic is 100% right if you are in Canada.
    Today’s Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) does not contain the lubricity needed to fully protect our vehicles. The Bosch CP4 fuel pump has an unusually high failure rate in the U.S., upwards of 7%, when compared to 1% failure rate in Europe. So why is the failing CP4 being installed in so many vehicles? When leaving the manufacturer the CP4 pump is typically successful because the pump is manufactured in Europe. The difference between the USA and Europe is that the lubricity properties have not been removed from the European diesel fuel, as it has in the U.S. fuel. The European EN-590 diesel fuel has a wear scar diameter 460-micron specification while in the U.S. the base is 520-micron in ASTM US D-975. Therefore, the failure is caused by the lack of lubricity in ultra-low sulfur fuel in the USA.

    "Give your fuel system the protection it needs, add Everyday Diesel Treatment (EDT) or LX4 LUBRICITY EXTREME to every fill up to save you the time", More from Hot shots website

    Seriously though, I would probably run an additive that helps with lubrication in the fuel if I had a CP4. I doubt it would hurt. But the main issue is the CP4 and I'm not blaming the fuel. That spec was in place years prior to the first CP4 in a Big 3 pick up. If it wasn't designed for US spec fuel and can't reliably function on US spec fuel than it shouldn't be installed in a US engine. The CP3 or the Denso doesn't seem to have an issue with the fuel.
    2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
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  8. #18
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKellerJr View Post
    "Give your fuel system the protection it needs, add Everyday Diesel Treatment (EDT) or LX4 LUBRICITY EXTREME to every fill up to save you the time", More from Hot shots website

    Seriously though, I would probably run an additive that helps with lubrication in the fuel if I had a CP4. I doubt it would hurt. But the main issue is the CP4 and I'm not blaming the fuel. That spec was in place years prior to the first CP4 in a Big 3 pick up. If it wasn't designed for US spec fuel and can't reliably function on US spec fuel than it shouldn't be installed in a US engine. The CP3 or the Denso doesn't seem to have an issue with the fuel.
    The CP4 should have never been used in the USA. That is why there are a bunch of lawsuits over this.

  9. #19
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    First off, I had a 2011 Silverado 3500DRW / Duramax with the CP4 pump.GM stated that NO additives were to be used. I followed their recomendation and my pump never failed.

    If the low sulpher diesel was really the problem, they would all be failing.
    Having had a CP4 pump for 9 years, I was acutely aware that a failure could occur at any time without warning. But the reality is that the failure rates ARE much lower than would be expected if the fuel was the problem.
    The fact is that all motors will have a fuel pump failure at some point in their lives. Nobody gets all worked up about it as in most motors a few dollars, and afternoon and a few beers, fixes it. Only The CP4 gernades trashing the entire fuel system when it fails... That is why everyone is concerned about it.
    Whenever people fear such a tragedy, they will do things to make them feel that they can avoid it. Using additives is one such thing.
    The reality is that the failures are random occurences. There is NO way to prove additives work or not. The only sure way to be avoid a failure is to not own a CP4 pump. Either by buying a different truck, doing a CP3 conversion, or possibly installing a disaster kit if you have a Ford.
    My advice is to put the additive money towards one of those solutions. They have been proven to work.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  10. #20
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmcqueen View Post
    The CP4 should have never been used in the USA.
    Ford is still installing them in new trucks. Not sure about 2023's.
    2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins SRW w/Aisin
    2021 Reflection 303RLS
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