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Thread: DC to DC Charging
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12-01-2022, 05:07 AM #21
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Chad
2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
2022 F350 6.7L Superduty, Carbonized Gray, Ultimate Lariat Pkg, 4WD, Crew Cab, 160" Wheelbase, 3.55EL Rear End, 3566# Payload
Adaptive Steering, Ultimate Camera Pkg, 20" Wheels, 397 Amp Dual Alternator, ARE Topper (Replaced 2004 F150)
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12-01-2022, 05:48 AM #22
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@Riverbug
Does the second alt have a clutch on it something like on the A/C compressor? Or is it a relay on the O/P?
400 amps from the engine bay. Amazing. Pretty soon there are going to be hook up kits to connect a truck to your house so in power failures you can keep the lights and fridge running..lol
My Challenger from the 70's came stock with a 37 amp alt.2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins SRW w/Aisin
2021 Reflection 303RLS
New to RV'ing since 1997
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12-01-2022, 07:30 AM #23
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I guess it's a sensor relay. There is no clutch. I'm not sure how much the second one would really get used even with a DC charger, but it's there if it's needed and it's just an added expense if it isn't needed.
Chad
2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
2022 F350 6.7L Superduty, Carbonized Gray, Ultimate Lariat Pkg, 4WD, Crew Cab, 160" Wheelbase, 3.55EL Rear End, 3566# Payload
Adaptive Steering, Ultimate Camera Pkg, 20" Wheels, 397 Amp Dual Alternator, ARE Topper (Replaced 2004 F150)
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12-01-2022, 02:54 PM #24
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I'm not so sure about that business of the second alternator only operating when called on for extra amps. Over on the Ford Truck forum there is a discussion I am involved in. Someone posted the Ford schematic/diagram of how the alternators connect. It looks to me like both operate simultaneously. Their output is controlled via the PCM so maybe it can regulate the current as well as the voltage from each alternators regulator - I am not sure and haven't found any concrete information explaining the function.
I'm still interested in the BMS and where it is and how it functions.
I monitor the alternator voltage via Forscan and both are up in the 14.0 VDC range all the time; one is always a volt or a bit more than the other.
bottom line for me: I think they both operate all the time feeding both batteries simultaneously. But I'm open to references to how they actually work.Larry KE4DMG
2022 F-350 KRU SRW LB - Airlift 5000+, ForScan, 37 RDS Aux Tank,
2019 310GK-R - Sailuns; MorRyde IS; Disc Brakes; 20K Reese Goosebox
Search kalakamods for my mods
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12-01-2022, 11:14 PM #25
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Here is a note about charging Lithium batteries...
What you said about charging Lithium batteries is true, however, this applies to "Lithium Ion" batteries. What you have are "Lithium Iron Phosphate" batteries (LiFePo4). LiFePo4 batteries are a different chemistry and they like to be charged to 100%, however, with an expected longevity of 4,000 cycles or more, I don't think you should be too concerned about either keeping them fully charged, or draining them too much. Your BMS will keep your batteries healthy. So, use them how you like.
Running your Fridge on A/C would draw almost as much energy as traveling with your Air Conditioner running. Your fridge uses resistive heat when it is operating on A/C power and Resistive Heat uses a whole, WHOLE, LOT of Electrons. It would be okay to run your fridge on A/C if you are going through a tunnel, or are on a Ferry, but otherwise your two SOK batteries are probably going to be drained when you arrive at your destination.
One thing you haven't addressed, is how much work 80 amps are going to be placing on your Alternator. You might just burn out your Alternator because you will be placing a constant 80 amp load on it for 8 hours. Your Alternator is not designed for that much load for that many hours straight.
You may have noticed that I spoke about your Alternator as though you only have a single Alternator versus your Dual Alternator setup. This is because Ford does not share the Alternator load evenly between the two Alternators. Because of fuel economy, the second Alternator rarely gets used. Ford only wants to use that Second Alternator as a last resort.
For a detailed look into how Ford utilizes their dual Alternator system, and how charging Lithium (LiFePo4) via a DC - DC Charger works watch the following Video from YouTuber "Mortons on the Move"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwrG3gUdDT8David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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12-01-2022, 11:28 PM #26
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You don't need to "Baby" your Lithium batteries. The BMS is designed to protect the batteries. LiFePo4 batteries are rated at greater than 4,000 cycles and a cycle is defined as 100% SOC to 0% SOC. If you are draining your batteries every day, >4000 cycles will give you 11 years of service and each day you only draw down to 30% (+/-) is a day that does not count against that (greater than) 4,000 number. I am not advocating you abuse your batteries, I'm just suggesting that your batteries may last longer than your camper.
David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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12-01-2022, 11:36 PM #27
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Pretty soon there are going to be hook up kits to connect a truck to your house so in power failures you can keep the lights and fridge running
It can run your house for a couple of days.
I test drove it, AWESOME Truck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simply AMAZING !!!!!!!David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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12-01-2022, 11:42 PM #28
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Check out this Video by Tom Morton from "Mortons on the Move" YouTube channel. He goes into detail how Ford controls the second Alternator and how he used DC-DC charging on his truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwrG3gUdDT8David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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12-02-2022, 12:44 AM #29
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What you are wanting to do, power your camper with 80 amps continuously, will probably lead to premature Alternator Failure. Accomplishing 80 amps of continuous charging power is better done with a special High Output Alternator, these alternators are often used on boats with high electrical demands. I do believe they are available for vehicles if you wanted to go that route.
However, I would recommend you re-examine your requirements...
First, you only have two batteries for a total of 400ah.
Second, you are looking at 80 amps for 8 hours That's 640ah, that is much more charging than you need.
Realistically, how often are you going to start your driving day with 0% SOC? You already said you usually start your Generator every morning so your Converter (or Inverter/Charger) will be adding power to your batteries all the time it is running (i.e.: 100 amps charging for 1 hour yields 25% SOC added to your batteries).
If you had a 12v DC fridge (or a residential fridge) I would say you could probably run your fridge from the truck via the DC-DC converter, however, since you have the Propane/ AC fridge, I don't think your battery bank and/or Alternator is large enough to handle that amount of draw.
Let's take a look at what you seem to be wanting to accomplish:
By eliminating running the fridge on A/C, you now have more moderate energy usage requirements.
You want to stop overnight, fix your dinner and maybe use the entertainment center for a bit before going to bed, you also want to be able to keep the coach warm overnight if it is cold (reminder: the Furnace is an energy pig). You have 400ah of battery storage and you started your trip with 100% SOC in your batteries. With DC-DC charging from the truck, you should arrive with ~100% SOC on the first night. Even if you have a cold night you should not use more than 200ah (50%) of your batteries. Depending on whether you run the Generator in the morning, you will begin your Travel day with more than 50% SOC.
Based on the above scenario, I would recommend you get a 30 amp DC-DC Converter. This would most likely give you a full charge by the time you stop every night (30 amp x 8 hours yields ~ 240ah). a 30 amp DC-DC Converter would be much less stress on your Alternator(s) and your wiring would be much smaller and cheaper.
If you find that the 30 amp DC-DC Converter is not enough, I would recommend expanding your battery bank so any short fall in your daily charging could be buffered by the larger battery bank (and occasional Generator use). I experienced a daily shortfall of about 10% on my return trip from Phoenix to Tampa. Because the Sun was low in the sky, (Winter) my Solar was unable to keep up with our daily usage, however, because our battery bank was so large, I was never concerned because eventually, we would stop at a campground and charge up the batteries (or hookup the Generator).David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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12-02-2022, 12:06 PM #30
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David,
I agree with almost all of your points in the previous several posts. But the one about the frig using as much power as an air conditioner?
My 12cf frig uses 360ish watts on AC power. My air conditioning uses 1200 to 1600 watts depending on which one I'm running. My 40A DC to DC charger is a perfect match for running the frig on AC while driving.
Not sure what you are basing that opinion on...
Boomer
Charging Lithium Batteries From...
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