Are diesels that difficult?

[jleonard]

Not so sure about that. I haven't ever used antigel, but have started my truck in -40* temps. So how cold does it have to be to make antigel a necessity? must be colder than -40* I guess.

I've seen diesels gel when I lived in Connecticut when the temps get to around 0 F. My VW almost gelled when the temp was around + 10 F. It would idle but wouldn't flow fast enough to get above idle. It had a clear fuel line so I could see it. The fuel was very "cloudy" looking.
The fuel is formulated for the particular region and anticipated temperatures. If you are running at -40 then your fuel is already treated with anti-gel.

[pilotpip]

This discussion comes up a lot. I think it's going to come up more as the performance gap closes. I think the next big "arms race" in the truck market will be the big block V-8 in 3/4 and 1 tons. Ford fired the first shot. The GM 6.6 and Hemi 6.4 are good engines, but they're long in the tooth like the ford 6.2 was. With a little bit of tuning the 7.3 is approaching the horsepower and torque of a diesel 10 years ago. Yes, there are advantages to towing with a diesel but as the operating expenses continue to grow, it becomes a major consideration.

I went with a gas engine in my F-350 order. I tow a couple times a month at maximum, and we are going to go with a 29G instead of a 5th wheel. For my needs and driving habits the 7.3 makes more sense than the power stroke at this time.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

You mean you don't need a vaccination booklet, or proof of vaccination to cross the border now? Been to Thunder Bay a couple times, several decades ago, back when it still was a pretty stinky place. Paper mills and such.

Ya, a few decades ago there were nine pulp and paper mills pumping out a lot of aroma....those days are gone. Only one mill left running and the emission controls are much better now.

No..no vax printouts, no silly gov't apps or anything now. We, as Canadians need to be vaxxed to cross into the USA, but you are free and clear to come here.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

If you are running at -40 then your fuel is already treated with anti-gel.

Could very well be. We don't often get -40*, but the truck runs in it.

[Hoopy Frood]

Ya, a few decades ago there were nine pulp and paper mills pumping out a lot of aroma....those days are gone. Only one mill left running and the emission controls are much better now.

No..no vax printouts, no silly gov't apps or anything now. We, as Canadians need to be vaxxed to cross into the USA, but you are free and clear to come here.

Cool, thank you.

[jh2pizza]

We switched to a Diesel on our last truck. After towing with both, I swore I would never look at a gas truck again. Then come the fuel prices. We were in the market for a larger truck and I was thinking of gas. Ford trucks 7.3 Godzilla engine runs on the cheap stuff. GM, The one I was planning on picking up required Premium fuel. This affected the price difference a good bit. Its Jen's daily driver and I was not wanting her to have to deal with def, and the Hassles of Diesel when it comes to the frequency of changing the fuel filters, etc. It's just not that big of a deal.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we stuck with Diesel.

[Dadeo6472]

I tow our 6000 lb trailer with a Ram 1500 3.0 liter Eco Diesel and love it. We've put over 50,000 miles on it since January 2021. Its not a heavy duty truck, but its a strong diesel. Frankly I'd never go back to a gas engine for a truck. The MPG is 33 MPG on the highway when not towing, between 25 to 28 MPG around town when not towing and 13 to 20 when towing. And frankly the amount of low RPM torque that you get from a diesel will just amaze you. You will always be able to have a conversation in a normal tone in a modern diesel truck, even when blasting up a steep grade.

DEF is mandatory for keeping diesel emissions under control. You will use more when towing. Its available at gas stations, auto supply stores and truck stops. At many RV and truck pumps it can be purchased right at the pump alongside the diesel fuel. There was some talk about a DEF shortage earlier this year, but that's mostly done. On long trips you can toss an extra 2.5 gallon container in the truck bed, for just in case. This stuff goes in its own tank and has a filler neck that looks a bit like the fuel filler neck. On my truck the two are next to each other under the gas cap. Generally 5 gallons of the stuff will get you 5,000 to 10,000 miles depending on how much weight you are towing. Usage goes up as fuel mileage goes down. While you can pay $10 to $20 for a 2.5 gallon container, it is cheaper at the pump, and you use so little per mile that its not really a cost factor.

With two exceptions, generally no fuel additive is necessary unless you suspect that the diesel supply at a station is suspiciously low in quality (but frankly if I suspect such, I find another station).

The First Exception is rare, but lets say its winter and you filled your big truck diesel tank in northern Florida with regular #2 diesel. Then you drive 500 miles due north into a cold snap, where temps are 0 degrees F or below over night and you didn't fill up before turning in for the night. There is a slight risk that the #2 diesel you bought in Florida the day before would turn to jell in the subzero temps. The truck won't start and you'd be stuck there until temps warm to above 10 degrees F and the fuel de-gels. This scenario is not likely because name brand Florida diesel has additives in it during the winter which prevent long haul truckers from having to deal with this issue. And if you bought your fuel in any part of the northern USA or Canada you can be sure that its got the cold weather additives needed. And as you go further north #2 diesel is blended with #1 diesel (up to nearly 100% in northern Canada and Alaska). # 1 is less powerful but it gels at a much, much lower temp.

The Second Exception is long term storage for more than a month. Both gas and diesel deteriorate over time (for different reasons) when not used.

The one drawback of diesel (for now) is that its more expensive than gas.

Despite the price difference, I still am glad I bought a diesel powered truck. With its 33 gallon tank it can tow my travel trailer between 400 and 500 miles. And when I am not towing, the truck gets 33 MPG on the highway. It has a range of about 1,000 miles (33 gallons X 33 MPG = 1089 miles). And while you won't get these kind of numbers with a heavy duty truck.... your gas mpg with such a truck will be even worse than a 1500 gasser.

[COGrandDes]

This discussion comes up a lot. I think it's going to come up more as the performance gap closes. I think the next big "arms race" in the truck market will be the big block V-8 in 3/4 and 1 tons. Ford fired the first shot. The GM 6.6 and Hemi 6.4 are good engines, but they're long in the tooth like the ford 6.2 was. With a little bit of tuning the 7.3 is approaching the horsepower and torque of a diesel 10 years ago. Yes, there are advantages to towing with a diesel but as the operating expenses continue to grow, it becomes a major consideration.

I went with a gas engine in my F-350 order. I tow a couple times a month at maximum, and we are going to go with a 29G instead of a 5th wheel. For my needs and driving habits the 7.3 makes more sense than the power stroke at this time.

As a person who restores muscle cars, build high HP engines, and has many other hobbies including camping.......I don't see the hype at all with the new Ford Godzilla engine personally. I have had this conversation with a bunch of my friends who are Ford lovers. That engine won't hold a candle to any of the current or early model diesels when pulling significant loads here in high altitude locations like CO. One must realize that 30% of your engine's HP and torque output is reduced at 5,000 ft of altitude and it loses more and more the higher you go. A gas engine cannot breathe nor make the advertised power numbers when it leaves sea level. I have driven V10s, BBCs and other "monster" gas engines for pulling and unless they are turbo charged or super charged.....you are in the right lane going up hills in CO at the engine's redline RPM getting passed by diesel engines running at 1600 RPM pulling dual axle toy haulers. The performance is nowhere near the same. Manufacturers would need to build charged engines rather than naturally aspired ones if they intend to challenge the diesels pulling power and they still won't make the same power at the same low RPMS. Diesels fill a niche that those of us who pull heavy loads have created. Once you pull with a one thousand pounds of true torque...how could you ever be satisfied with a strangled version of a big block gas engine rated at 425 ft lbs at sea level but now at altitude is more like 300 ft lbs. Been there---done that before! No thanks! Diesels are king of the hill for a reason.....

[huntindog]

As a person who restores muscle cars, build high HP engines, and has many other hobbies including camping.......I don't see the hype at all with the new Ford Godzilla engine personally. I have had this conversation with a bunch of my friends who are Ford lovers. That engine won't hold a candle to any of the current or early model diesels when pulling significant loads here in high altitude locations like CO. One must realize that 30% of your engine's HP and torque output is reduced at 5,000 ft of altitude and it loses more and more the higher you go. A gas engine cannot breathe nor make the advertised power numbers when it leaves sea level. I have driven V10s, BBCs and other "monster" gas engines for pulling and unless they are turbo charged or super charged.....you are in the right lane going up hills in CO at the engine's redline RPM getting passed by diesel engines running at 1600 RPM pulling dual axle toy haulers. The performance is nowhere near the same. Manufacturers would need to build charged engines rather than naturally aspired ones if they intend to challenge the diesels pulling power and they still won't make the same power at the same low RPMS. Diesels fill a niche that those of us who pull heavy loads have created. Once you pull with a one thousand pounds of true torque...how could you ever be satisfied with a strangled version of a big block gas engine rated at 425 ft lbs at sea level but now at altitude is more like 300 ft lbs. Been there---done that before! No thanks! Diesels are king of the hill for a reason.....

Agree.
And you cannot just throw a super/turbo charger on a gas motor if you want it to live long.

[xrated]

As a person who restores muscle cars, build high HP engines, and has many other hobbies including camping.......I don't see the hype at all with the new Ford Godzilla engine personally. I have had this conversation with a bunch of my friends who are Ford lovers. That engine won't hold a candle to any of the current or early model diesels when pulling significant loads here in high altitude locations like CO. One must realize that 30% of your engine's HP and torque output is reduced at 5,000 ft of altitude and it loses more and more the higher you go. A gas engine cannot breathe nor make the advertised power numbers when it leaves sea level. I have driven V10s, BBCs and other "monster" gas engines for pulling and unless they are turbo charged or super charged.....you are in the right lane going up hills in CO at the engine's redline RPM getting passed by diesel engines running at 1600 RPM pulling dual axle toy haulers. The performance is nowhere near the same. Manufacturers would need to build charged engines rather than naturally aspired ones if they intend to challenge the diesels pulling power and they still won't make the same power at the same low RPMS. Diesels fill a niche that those of us who pull heavy loads have created. Once you pull with a one thousand pounds of true torque...how could you ever be satisfied with a strangled version of a big block gas engine rated at 425 ft lbs at sea level but now at altitude is more like 300 ft lbs. Been there---done that before! No thanks! Diesels are king of the hill for a reason.....

Thanks for that explanation. I basically knew what you are saying, but you did a lot better job of explaining it than I could imagine doing.