LifeBlue Battery Low-Temp Heater Issue?

[AMJF&FG]

Hello All. I recently purchased a LifeBlue 200 AH Low-Temp battery. Its internal heaters, which are supposed to draw from the charging source, do not stay on for more than 10-15 seconds. I have spoken with LifeBlue (which seems to be one person at a shop in AZ as far as I can tell), and he tells me that while he can not say what the issue might be, he feels it is indicative of the charger/converter somehow cutting off power to the battery, as the heaters need a constant 14 amps to run. The general time line is: Connect to power source, battery with display (via LifeBlue app) an error stating "Low-temp while charging", followed by "Battery Warming". At this point the app shows ~20+ amps into the battery. After 10-15 seconds, the message will state "Battery Warming Stop" followed by "Low temp while charging" At this point, with the temperature not having changed even a tenth of a degree, the amps will drop to zero on the app, and the status will revert to standby.

The power source is not the issue, as this is happening while plugged into either generators and shore power. Does not make a difference. The charger is a WFCO WF-8955LiS. I have spoken with tech support at WFCO, and they confirm there is no reason the the converter would suddenly cut off or interrupt the current/amps flowing to the battery. The converter performs perfectly in every other situation.

Back with LifeBlue, they want me to ship them the battery to test it, and have even sent me new shipping packaging to send it back to them, great. HOWEVER, if they determine there is nothing wrong with it, I will have to pay them back for shipping both ways before they will send back the battery which I have already paid them for. So will have to lay out more cash to get back an expensive battery that still will not be working for me at least, or basically be out the battery entirely I suppose if they wont ship it back to me. Given that they have already stated that they don't believe there is a problem and that the great majority of their returns do not result in the finding of a problem (which they alone get to decide whether or not there is a problem...), this seems like a pretty big gamble.

So my question after all of this: Is there something here that I am missing? Is there some other aspect of this system that is causing this that I do not understand? LifeBlue just keeps telling me they have thousands of these in the field and no one else has reported this issue, that many are using this WFCO converter with it successfully. WFCO tech support (which has been great) has said they have not run into this either. If anyone has any more perspective here would really appreciate it. Thanks!

[Soundsailor]

Hello All. I recently purchased a LifeBlue 200 AH Low-Temp battery. Its internal heaters, which are supposed to draw from the charging source, do not stay on for more than 10-15 seconds. I have spoken with LifeBlue (which seems to be one person at a shop in AZ as far as I can tell), and he tells me that while he can not say what the issue might be, he feels it is indicative of the charger/converter somehow cutting off power to the battery, as the heaters need a constant 14 amps to run. The general time line is: Connect to power source, battery with display (via LifeBlue app) an error stating "Low-temp while charging", followed by "Battery Warming". At this point the app shows ~20+ amps into the battery. After 10-15 seconds, the message will state "Battery Warming Stop" followed by "Low temp while charging" At this point, with the temperature not having changed even a tenth of a degree, the amps will drop to zero on the app, and the status will revert to standby.

The power source is not the issue, as this is happening while plugged into either generators and shore power. Does not make a difference. The charger is a WFCO WF-8955LiS. I have spoken with tech support at WFCO, and they confirm there is no reason the the converter would suddenly cut off or interrupt the current/amps flowing to the battery. The converter performs perfectly in every other situation.

Back with LifeBlue, they want me to ship them the battery to test it, and have even sent me new shipping packaging to send it back to them, great. HOWEVER, if they determine there is nothing wrong with it, I will have to pay them back for shipping both ways before they will send back the battery which I have already paid them for. So will have to lay out more cash to get back an expensive battery that still will not be working for me at least, or basically be out the battery entirely I suppose if they wont ship it back to me. Given that they have already stated that they don't believe there is a problem and that the great majority of their returns do not result in the finding of a problem (which they alone get to decide whether or not there is a problem...), this seems like a pretty big gamble.

So my question after all of this: Is there something here that I am missing? Is there some other aspect of this system that is causing this that I do not understand? LifeBlue just keeps telling me they have thousands of these in the field and no one else has reported this issue, that many are using this WFCO converter with it successfully. WFCO tech support (which has been great) has said they have not run into this either. If anyone has any more perspective here would really appreciate it. Thanks!

The converter could go into float mode and not supply 14 Amps if it thinks the battery is fully charged.

[AMJF&FG]

Thanks for the reply! Would it switch over that quickly? I spoke a bit with WFCO about the changing of stages on the converter, in that its drops to 13.8V after an hour or so if it feels the need to, but it sounded like it would not happen after just a few seconds. Maybe I misunderstood. The SOC has been in the 50-60% range, so not tried all the way down. When the temperatures are normal though, it seems to charge in bulk mode with 20+ amps from the same SOC. Is there a reason this would only apply when it is cold? If that is the case, is there any way to defeat it? As in, set the system up in such a way that it recognizes that the battery is not in fact full? Thanks again!

[traveldawg]

I'll probably get blasted for this, but here goes.......

Can you put the battery on a standalone charger, like a regular battery charger, that products 14 amps or whatever is needed and see what happens? Maybe jumper it to your truck battery directly to see what happens then - the trucks batter should produce enough current for a good test.

Or - heat you battery compartment. Maybe just use an old style trouble light with a common incandescent bulb? That use to work for me with a stubborn LP regulator.

[Soundsailor]

Since I don't have that charger I can't be sure. But it does seem like the battery heater wants more power than it is getting. Can you use a multimeter to see what's happening when you get that message (Battery Warming Stop)?

[AMJF&FG]

I'll probably get blasted for this, but here goes.......

Can you put the battery on a standalone charger, like a regular battery charger, that products 14 amps or whatever is needed and see what happens? Maybe jumper it to your truck battery directly to see what happens then - the trucks batter should produce enough current for a good test.

Or - heat you battery compartment. Maybe just use an old style trouble light with a common incandescent bulb? That use to work for me with a stubborn LP regulator.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I will take it out entirely and try to charge it from some other single source to see what happens before i do send it back. It is in a battery box on the tongue, so the only effective external heater would be some sort of heat mat I would think. But that is why I took the extra hit to get a heated model in the first place.

[AMJF&FG]

Since I don't have that charger I can't be sure. But it does seem like the battery heater wants more power than it is getting. Can you use a multimeter to see what's happening when you get that message (Battery Warming Stop)?

I will have to try that. I had been relying on the data readout from the app, which is showing 20+ amps in at the start, and once the "Stop" message comes about, it drops to zero. That's not really helpful I suppose in knowing what is really coming through the battery cable in that moment, but I do know that when trying all of this hooked up to a generator, when that 20 amps drops to zero, you can tell it is real by the sounds the generator is producing (loading/unloading). That would be the heaters attempting for a bit then shutting down. That's why I contacted WFCO to double check that the converter itself would not cut off for one reason or another within just a few seconds. I thought at first the problem may be related to it being plugged into a generator (or certainly the solar for that matter before that), but the issue/symptoms are identical on shore power as well. So the power source itself is not the issue.
When testing it with the multimeter, what is the best procedure so as to know I am getting a reading of what is coming in from the power source and not something perhaps coming back from the battery? I don't have alot of experience here so want to make sure I'm not confusing myself more with a bad reading. Thanks again!

[LanerC]

Hello All. I recently purchased a LifeBlue 200 AH Low-Temp battery. Its internal heaters, which are supposed to draw from the charging source, do not stay on for more than 10-15 seconds. I have spoken with LifeBlue (which seems to be one person at a shop in AZ as far as I can tell), and he tells me that while he can not say what the issue might be, he feels it is indicative of the charger/converter somehow cutting off power to the battery, as the heaters need a constant 14 amps to run. The general time line is: Connect to power source, battery with display (via LifeBlue app) an error stating "Low-temp while charging", followed by "Battery Warming". At this point the app shows ~20+ amps into the battery. After 10-15 seconds, the message will state "Battery Warming Stop" followed by "Low temp while charging" At this point, with the temperature not having changed even a tenth of a degree, the amps will drop to zero on the app, and the status will revert to standby.

The power source is not the issue, as this is happening while plugged into either generators and shore power. Does not make a difference. The charger is a WFCO WF-8955LiS. I have spoken with tech support at WFCO, and they confirm there is no reason the the converter would suddenly cut off or interrupt the current/amps flowing to the battery. The converter performs perfectly in every other situation.

Back with LifeBlue, they want me to ship them the battery to test it, and have even sent me new shipping packaging to send it back to them, great. HOWEVER, if they determine there is nothing wrong with it, I will have to pay them back for shipping both ways before they will send back the battery which I have already paid them for. So will have to lay out more cash to get back an expensive battery that still will not be working for me at least, or basically be out the battery entirely I suppose if they wont ship it back to me. Given that they have already stated that they don't believe there is a problem and that the great majority of their returns do not result in the finding of a problem (which they alone get to decide whether or not there is a problem...), this seems like a pretty big gamble.

So my question after all of this: Is there something here that I am missing? Is there some other aspect of this system that is causing this that I do not understand? LifeBlue just keeps telling me they have thousands of these in the field and no one else has reported this issue, that many are using this WFCO converter with it successfully. WFCO tech support (which has been great) has said they have not run into this either. If anyone has any more perspective here would really appreciate it. Thanks!

I admit I dont understand the messages from the application, but most heating aps are only full on until some kind of thermostat is satisfied then it is full off. Could app just be getting satisfied in a short amount of time then shutting down?

[Soundsailor]

I will have to try that. I had been relying on the data readout from the app, which is showing 20+ amps in at the start, and once the "Stop" message comes about, it drops to zero. That's not really helpful I suppose in knowing what is really coming through the battery cable in that moment, but I do know that when trying all of this hooked up to a generator, when that 20 amps drops to zero, you can tell it is real by the sounds the generator is producing (loading/unloading). That would be the heaters attempting for a bit then shutting down. That's why I contacted WFCO to double check that the converter itself would not cut off for one reason or another within just a few seconds. I thought at first the problem may be related to it being plugged into a generator (or certainly the solar for that matter before that), but the issue/symptoms are identical on shore power as well. So the power source itself is not the issue.
When testing it with the multimeter, what is the best procedure so as to know I am getting a reading of what is coming in from the power source and not something perhaps coming back from the battery? I don't have alot of experience here so want to make sure I'm not confusing myself more with a bad reading. Thanks again!

Sorry, I'm no expert with a multimeter either. Perhaps @IBEW Sparky or @xrated will chime in.

[AMJF&FG]

I admit I dont understand the messages from the application, but most heating aps are only full on until some kind of thermostat is satisfied then it is full off. Could app just be getting satisfied in a short amount of time then shutting down?

The thermostat is inside of the battery from what I understand, the app is just a bluetooth readout of things like SOC, temp, cycles, and messages from the internal BMS/thermostat etc. When the heater shuts down, the temperature reading has still not changed and is still in the teens or twenties or whatever it has been. So definitely still below the safe charging thresholds from what I understand.