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  1. #11
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Heather View Post
    Thank you for the attachment... I will get that done and see what I find for flexion. I have dropped the "filon" all but what will not come out of the front cap, I assume adhesive tape is holding it. More importantly I wanted to check for water and anything obvious on the frame. I will have to take a closer look, but I do not have a great view into the wall area from under the filon. I do not want to deal with the front cap if possible, since all of the rubber gasket is full body paint and that would be a nightmare.... I think that is why I was thinking of removing the front bedroom cabinets and bed to gain access... thoughts? I fell confident enough to be able to rebuild or change what was there, based on my wife's designs, so the interior does not scare me as much. I just DO NOT want to make more work for myself.. LOL

    Thanks all for any thoughts and directions... so far everyone has had great input and direction!!!

    Scott
    Good lord, man! Are you guy that wanted to be a demolition expert when he grew up?

    Take one step at a time. It is actually a rare instance when you have to do much more than you have opened to implement a repair. So, let's go stepwise instead of "Hulk SMASH!" - can you tell I am an engineer?

    See what the sheet tells you and have hawkeyes on the pinbox. If you have it, set up a video camera on a tripod with a fixed reference in the background if your better half has no patience to watch closely... Also, post some pictures of your crack because we can focus you to where to look for breaks if we can see it I am sure.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  2. #12
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    See what the sheet tells you and have hawkeyes on the pinbox. If you have it, set up a video camera on a tripod with a fixed reference in the background if your better half has no patience to watch closely... Also, post some pictures of your crack because we can focus you to where to look for breaks if we can see it I am sure.
    From experience in taking the measurements when hooked up, the truck tailgate gets in the way. I considered removing the tailgate, but even then, the truck bed interferes in getting the most accurate measurements. I have a tractor with juiced tires and even with the brush cutter on the back, I couldn't lift the trailer safely. I ended up running it down to a dealer about an hour away and we used their huge lift truck. Like @geotex1 suggested, we took photos and videos of the measurements. I have a Goosebox on our coach, so we also measured for flex in that relative to the bottom of the overhang/front cap and then got Reese involved. All measurements were within spec but Lippert still authorized dropping of the filon and inspecting the upper deck. Took tons of photos of that, too, and used a GoPro on a stick to get to some of the harder to see spots. All checked out okay. We didn't have side wall cracks like you, but 5 of 6 screws in the C-channel trim on the right side at the filon/cap seam had broken heads suggesting an upper deck flexion issue. In the end, put 4 extra bolts in the Goosebox (total of 12 now) and buttoned everything up.

    Now if we could just figure out why the LR slide box is sitting off-square in the slide opening (been at the selling dealer since Dec 2), maybe we could actually use the thing.
    2022 Solitude 378MBS-R
    2021 Ford F450 CC Lariat Ultimate FX4
    1966 Shasta Astroflyte (1 year restoration project that is going on year 6)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fsalmy View Post
    From experience in taking the measurements when hooked up, the truck tailgate gets in the way. I considered removing the tailgate, but even then, the truck bed interferes in getting the most accurate measurements. I have a tractor with juiced tires and even with the brush cutter on the back, I couldn't lift the trailer safely. I ended up running it down to a dealer about an hour away and we used their huge lift truck. Like @geotex1 suggested, we took photos and videos of the measurements. I have a Goosebox on our coach, so we also measured for flex in that relative to the bottom of the overhang/front cap and then got Reese involved. All measurements were within spec but Lippert still authorized dropping of the filon and inspecting the upper deck. Took tons of photos of that, too, and used a GoPro on a stick to get to some of the harder to see spots. All checked out okay. We didn't have side wall cracks like you, but 5 of 6 screws in the C-channel trim on the right side at the filon/cap seam had broken heads suggesting an upper deck flexion issue. In the end, put 4 extra bolts in the Goosebox (total of 12 now) and buttoned everything up.

    Now if we could just figure out why the LR slide box is sitting off-square in the slide opening (been at the selling dealer since Dec 2), maybe we could actually use the thing.
    OMG... I swear you saw our fifth wheel by your description. LOL The slide not sitting square part. So I do know I have to get the serial number of the schwintek and get that ordered, since the gib gave way and caused it to "settle" so it is off square.

    I DID read about the tailgate getting in the way.. so I really appreciate that. I was thinking of creating a "stand" that would support the gooseneck as I retracted the front jacks. I was thinking it would be unencumbered that way as I heard the bed would play a roll of being in the way. I was going to check with folks here first, before I took to the pressure treated 6x6 and associated hardware to take the measurements.

    @geotext1 I swear I did grow up on "hulkl smash" cartoons.... but I will take it one step at a time. You guys are awesome and the feedback and direction are sooooo appreciated!!! My wife keeps saying "IF WE HAVE AN RV THIS YEAR" I think we can go here and there..... ugh no pressure!!

    Tomorrow, Saturday 1/7 I will be working on the rig all day.... one step at a time. Feel free to add your thoughts and suggestions.

    Thanks

    Scott
    Western Mass
    2017 Momentum 399TH
    2019 GMC Crew Cab Dually Denali 8 foot bed,
    Gen-Y Gooseneck at the Pinbox.

  4. #14
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    @geotex1, @Second Chance, @Fsalmy

    So I took measurements from each side of the pin box per the document Fsalmy sent. The movement was equal on both sides and was 3/8 of an inch. So I guess that is good news from a frame point of view, but I feel there is some sort of movement in the upper wall around the slide, thus causing the crack. It may very well be the from Schwintek slide system, which I am going to order the replacement for, that since the "GIB" broke off and caused the slide to be lower, maybe adding to the stress? I am not an engineer, but it does not add up... if the front of the slide is lower then the back, the stress I would think would be on the top of the opening not the bottom.

    Also, the stress crack in the outer fiberglass grew after the last trip about an inch and when hitched up the fiberglass bubbles out a bit. Again this is why I was thinking frame etc.

    I am ready for new thoughts and direction. I was going to reinstall the lower fiberglass piece, pylon, that holds the front access door to the generator. I have attempted to look up along the inside of this for frame cracks etc, but there is not real access. The only benefit was identifying some water intrusion along the outer seams, so new silicone and tape and that should stop that.

    Thank you again for any assistance!!

    Scott
    @arhayes I added you to this after reading your posts and seeing your pictures of your frame issue. Although I do not have photos uploaded, I am going to try to do that next, I wanted to reach out in case there was something you could add.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Scott_Heather; 01-08-2023 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Added Arhayes
    Western Mass
    2017 Momentum 399TH
    2019 GMC Crew Cab Dually Denali 8 foot bed,
    Gen-Y Gooseneck at the Pinbox.

  5. #15
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    @Scott_Heather,

    OK, an equal 3/8" is definitely within Lippert's tolerable flex for the deck. No we need to move on. So a common problem is putting the frame in torsion. This happens when attempting to auto-level on a widely varying sight, one of the jacks sticks/fails/slips/bent, dropping the coach, etc. Inspect the mounting for all jacks looking very closely at the frame for cracks, especially in the web (guess how I know). Due to poor lighting, difficult access, black paint, etc. it can be hard to see a crack but usually something amiss presents itself while staring at it while someone else operates them. What can happen when the rig gets torqued it can break the screws through the upper deck anchoring the sidewall. Enough flex and it can snap welds within the sidewall.

    It's time to watch and measure the crack you have at the slide room while hitching and unhitching for opening/closing during the states of motion and differing support - i.e., when on the pin versus when on the front jacks. Do not try to eyeball this, but instead run 3 level lines across both sides of the the crack using a dry erase or China marker. Then use a set of feeler or gap gauges and measure!
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    @Scott_Heather,

    OK, an equal 3/8" is definitely within Lippert's tolerable flex for the deck. No we need to move on. So a common problem is putting the frame in torsion. This happens when attempting to auto-level on a widely varying sight, one of the jacks sticks/fails/slips/bent, dropping the coach, etc. Inspect the mounting for all jacks looking very closely at the frame for cracks, especially in the web (guess how I know). Due to poor lighting, difficult access, black paint, etc. it can be hard to see a crack but usually something amiss presents itself while staring at it while someone else operates them. What can happen when the rig gets torqued it can break the screws through the upper deck anchoring the sidewall. Enough flex and it can snap welds within the sidewall.

    It's time to watch and measure the crack you have at the slide room while hitching and unhitching for opening/closing during the states of motion and differing support - i.e., when on the pin versus when on the front jacks. Do not try to eyeball this, but instead run 3 level lines across both sides of the the crack using a dry erase or China marker. Then use a set of feeler or gap gauges and measure!
    Ok, I will do this test next!!

    Today I went through and wiped down any dirt in the propane hatches, tanks have been removed, and around the stabilizer jacks. I have one weeping I think so I hope it is easier to find out where. But anyway, I did this so I could take my time and look for anything which could be masked by dirt etc. I will also have the wife operate the jacks so I can look at each of the two in front to see if anything looks off. I did find one of the long self taping screws, about 4 inches long was not secured and 2 others loose on the passenger side. I tightened the two loose ones and re attached in new metal, right next to where it was, with a positive connection. (Done today, Just as info)

    Thank you!!

    Scott
    Western Mass
    2017 Momentum 399TH
    2019 GMC Crew Cab Dually Denali 8 foot bed,
    Gen-Y Gooseneck at the Pinbox.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Heather View Post
    Ok, I will do this test next!!

    Today I went through and wiped down any dirt in the propane hatches, tanks have been removed, and around the stabilizer jacks. I have one weeping I think so I hope it is easier to find out where. But anyway, I did this so I could take my time and look for anything which could be masked by dirt etc. I will also have the wife operate the jacks so I can look at each of the two in front to see if anything looks off. I did find one of the long self taping screws, about 4 inches long was not secured and 2 others loose on the passenger side. I tightened the two loose ones and re attached in new metal, right next to where it was, with a positive connection. (Done today, Just as info)

    Thank you!!

    Scott
    Photos of crack behind bedroom slide. 1st shows when connected to truck, 2nd and 3rd are on the landing gear. No string work yet. Just ordered the H Columns from Lippert, for the shwintek slide since the gibs broke off the front rail. The only way to fix them. They were concerned about the crack in the fiberglass as well.

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    @Second Chance, if you have some advise too or maybe know someone on here that works at Grand Design etc.

    Thank you

    Scott
    Western Mass
    2017 Momentum 399TH
    2019 GMC Crew Cab Dually Denali 8 foot bed,
    Gen-Y Gooseneck at the Pinbox.

  8. #18
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Heather View Post
    Photos of crack behind bedroom slide. 1st shows when connected to truck, 2nd and 3rd are on the landing gear. No string work yet. Just ordered the H Columns from Lippert, for the shwintek slide since the gibs broke off the front rail. The only way to fix them. They were concerned about the crack in the fiberglass as well.

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    @Second Chance, if you have some advise too or maybe know someone on here that works at Grand Design etc.

    Thank you

    Scott
    That's no bueno! You've got a legit break in the structure somewhere. It could be the deck framing, wall framing, or both. Get into the basement storage behind the bulkhead with well rested eyes and plenty of light and look carefully. See this, I personally suggest you forget opening the inside wall. That crack will require exterior repair to perform. If there's broken welds in the wall framing, going to need to be welded and gusseted.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  9. #19
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    That's no bueno! You've got a legit break in the structure somewhere. It could be the deck framing, wall framing, or both. Get into the basement storage behind the bulkhead with well rested eyes and plenty of light and look carefully. See this, I personally suggest you forget opening the inside wall. That crack will require exterior repair to perform. If there's broken welds in the wall framing, going to need to be welded and gusseted.
    Although not an engineer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, or even in the last year, I would not repair the slide mechanism until the frame or wall stud issue is addressed. At that location and with the gap being wider when on the hitch, it sure suggests broken welds somewhere in the upper deck. I watched a video yesterday of how a nearly identical issue on a Vanleigh was repaired (with gussets), and unfortunately, how that repair failed on the way home from the repair facility in MS.

    It looks like the propane compartment is right under the crack or maybe slightly forward of it. I think it may have been mentioned earlier in this thread, but if not, open that door up and examine any visible welds/frame in that area again and do whatever @geotex1 suggests.
    2022 Solitude 378MBS-R
    2021 Ford F450 CC Lariat Ultimate FX4
    1966 Shasta Astroflyte (1 year restoration project that is going on year 6)

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fsalmy View Post
    Although not an engineer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, or even in the last year, I would not repair the slide mechanism until the frame or wall stud issue is addressed. At that location and with the gap being wider when on the hitch, it sure suggests broken welds somewhere in the upper deck. I watched a video yesterday of how a nearly identical issue on a Vanleigh was repaired (with gussets), and unfortunately, how that repair failed on the way home from the repair facility in MS.

    It looks like the propane compartment is right under the crack or maybe slightly forward of it. I think it may have been mentioned earlier in this thread, but if not, open that door up and examine any visible welds/frame in that area again and do whatever @geotex1 suggests.
    @Fsalmy, that was a funny intro!! So yes Ryan and Sarah of Midlife Detour have had a hell of a time with that Beacon!!! I totally agree on the new slide etc. The parts will rest on the bed until the time comes that everything is "good to go"?.?...... fingers crossed.... see below for more...

    @geotex1, SOOOO here is an update. I called into the mother ship, got a case # assigned, was allowed to make a small interior cut out, no hulk... and with a small pryer I can move the aluminum wall frame against the large steel D channel that resides in the bedroom. Comes with it's own metal squeak .... So called back to GD and advised them. They want it to go get an official measure from the inbox to the frame, by one of their approved repair places. Then once they have determined the issue, (I truly feel it will be side wall, and one of the techs at GD agrees...), then it will be repaired. Most likely by taking some of the outer skin off and the bedroom wardrobe slide right out of the unit. (Then the new slide mechanism installed)

    I was told this its already being elevated to the "Big Boss Man" for review and I truly feel I am being listened to and helped by GD. This gives me faith!!! My poor wife is besides herself thinking we were DUPED by the private sale made in PA. Shame on me, I asked about the little crack and he said it was always there...

    I have an appointment in March on the 5th to get it in... they think a month, but obviously will not know until they open it up. The dealer said they have 2 good paint shops that should be able to make it all look pretty again too. Again big fingers crossed.

    So Thank you to each of you that have responded and pointed me in a positive direction. This is the reason why I paid for a subscription so I can hope to help others and learn soooo much along the way. @seoncd chance, thank you as well.

    I will post a picture of the small access hole I made just for reference so people know the steel frame is in the way of actually seeing the aluminum wall frame down to the slide bottom.... the more you know!!******* (Saturday morning cartoon reference there)

    *** Update big boss says they will deny the frame coverage, due to it being greater than 3 years... I am going to continue to push. I feel this is not right.

    Scott
    Last edited by Scott_Heather; 01-17-2023 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Update from G-Design
    Western Mass
    2017 Momentum 399TH
    2019 GMC Crew Cab Dually Denali 8 foot bed,
    Gen-Y Gooseneck at the Pinbox.

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