Wet bolt bushing question

[Hoopy Frood]

Wow. I will definitely have a look at all of them when I get her up in the air this spring. I have 20,000 miles on the originals. Probably need replaced based on the input here.

The original brass wet bolts?

[ajg617]

Wow. I will definitely have a look at all of them when I get her up in the air this spring. I have 20,000 miles on the originals. Probably need replaced based on the input here.

We put 12K miles this year on our originals. Greased all at about 5k miles because of the noise when leveling, raising to hitch, or pulling out of a site - truly obnoxious. But as @msutoad says, I have no clue if they are shot or not since they are still taking grease. How do you know they are worn out then and what additional damage could occur? Planning another long trip this season - not what I want to start with.

[geotex1]

Wow. I will definitely have a look at all of them when I get her up in the air this spring. I have 20,000 miles on the originals. Probably need replaced based on the input here.

You will have some completely ground to dust. Be sure to have replacement wet bolts as they will be galled where the bushing is gone.

[geotex1]

We put 12K miles this year on our originals. Greased all at about 5k miles because of the noise when leveling, raising to hitch, or pulling out of a site - truly obnoxious. But as @msutoad says, I have no clue if they are shot or not since they are still taking grease. How do you know they are worn out then and what additional damage could occur? Planning another long trip this season - not what I want to start with.

Taking grease does not mean the bushings are intact. Only visual inspection will tell. Because of how inexpensive trailer spring eyes are formed, they wreck bushings. When the bushings fail, you will gall the wet bolts and bearing points and end up with hogged out (elongated) holes that will not provide service over the long-term because subsequent bushings will quickly deform, causing binding, and be broken up. In worst cases, shackles and spring hangers have to be replaced. I just spent a healthy sum on having a custom spring maker make me a set where the eyes are formed like those used in automotive applications that are honed out and use polyurethane bushings. Thanks to the pandemic, two years to have them made! There are literally only 3 shops left in the US that make custom springs - I mean from scratch working and treating the steel, including forming and machining the eyes and arching. Plenty can buy leafs out of a catalog and assemble a spring pack, but that's not getting what I had made.

[dryfly]

@geotex1

Obviously not the quality of custom springs, but are there sources that make better quality springs than the mass-manufactured ones used by Grand Design (Dexter)?

[FlyStar]

You will have some completely ground to dust. Be sure to have replacement wet bolts as they will be galled where the bushing is gone.

Good advice. I’ll have plenty of bolts and bushings. Plus new single use nuts. Hopefully all the other parts will be OK. It will be 3200 more miles to get home and get working on them. I’ll keep em greased up in the mean time.

[geotex1]

@geotex1

Obviously not the quality of custom springs, but are there sources that make better quality springs than the mass-manufactured ones used by Grand Design (Dexter)?

Unfortunately, not that I have found. Dexter gobbled everyone up. Dexter is making all their springs in the Seagoville plant (former Rockwell plant). The issue is that for all 1.75-inch leafs, the industry has accepted 11/16-inch ID eyes to be the standard. Until relatively recently because of RVs, that leaf width was reserved for 6,000# and under axles. Now they are on 8,000# axles. If you were buying anything but a camping trailer, at 8,000# you move to 2-inch leafs with bushing eyes.

The set of 1.75" leafs I had made have 2" diameter eyes with pressed in poly bushings that accept a bronze, steel, or aluminum bushing. Because I didn't want to upsize my 9/16" wet bolts to 3/4", I had to order "adapter" bronze bushings from Atlas Bronze, which was no big deal as they're a stocked size. I could have ordered a cored bronze bar and cut to length myself too at 1/3 the price, but I wanted the spring shop to have everything I wanted to work with and Atlas could deliver direct. It would have been cheaper to convert to 2" springs if i were fresh from the factory, but I already rebuilt the suspension once after the failure, and have X-factors, shock kit, boxef and gusseted hangers, etc. installed around 1.75" width leafs. Fortunately the spring hangers and shackles at the equalizers can handle the larger eye diameter! I also had the roadside pair made to accommodate the weight bias and take out the lean as a result. Looking forward to installing them in the Spring and not dealing with bronze bushings needing replacement every couple thousand miles! My only comfort is that even with all the money into the running gear mods, I'm still thousands of dollars below IS conversion! However, if I did it again, I would build a tube steel subframe with fabricated hangers, use 2" springs and 3/4" wet bolts, and the subframe would allow me to better triangulate my shocks. This way only because I can get parts anywhere in N. America versus losing the rubber on an IS, for instance...

[msutoad]

When mine stopped taking grease, when I removed them what I found was the bushing basically disintegrated and welded the bushing dust in the grease hole on the wet bolt. So you could not pump any grease into the hole. It is good advice that you need to replace the wet bolts when you remove them to change the bushings. Everyone of my wet bolts on the shaft side looked fine, but when I took the nuts off the bolts, the threads for the nuts and bolts were wrecked on removal. So don’t remove your bolts to check your bushings without having replacement parts. I thankfully had what I need to do the first few, and realized I need a complete set for 22 bushings on my tri-axle. I found Dexter makes a bronze bushing that is much stronger than the CRE3000 MorrRyde Brass bushing, but I was not willing to put that in while I was under the factory warranty. Now that I am out of warranty, I will be using the dexter bushing in all the holes except on the CRE3000 devices. The OD of the Dexter sleeve is 1000th too wide. I used a metal lathe and machined them down to have the OD fit the CRE3000 so I have some that are stronger too . Those will all go in this time when I swap them again.

Hope this helps others.

[Hoopy Frood]

"but when I took the nuts off the bolts, the threads for the nuts and bolts were wrecked on removal."

How were the threads wrecked? I take it these were not regular lock nuts, or Ny-locks. Just curious.

[msutoad]

"but when I took the nuts off the bolts, the threads for the nuts and bolts were wrecked on removal."

How were the threads wrecked? I take it these were not regular lock nuts, or Ny-locks. Just curious.

So the nuts are not on super tight, only 40 foot pounds of torque. However when the wetbolts and nuts were new (I replaced all of mine), the nut threads and the wetbolt threads were less than perfectly smooth. I was not able to by hand twist on the nuts and hand tighten them just in the air hardly at all. I could have taken my tap and die set to clean them up I guess, but they went on, and when they come off, the threads look very worn, and there is no way I would reuse them after seeing what they looked like after taking them off. I suppose mine could be anomalies, but I doubt it. Unless I was in a pinch or an emergency, I would not reuse mine and would get new ones if I was taking them out to check or change bushings. Hope this helps. I did keep some of the old wetbolts for a true emergency only since I used all the new ones and have not gotten my spare new ones you (They are on order). Let me know if you want any pics of those too. They did not look worn on the shafts, likely because I replaced the bushings so close to when they are destroyed/disintegrated. But as stated above, if you have been pulling with no bushings for a long time, those wetbolts are gonna be unusable and will need replacing.